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turktown20 Posted on 31/08/2019 07:32
Momentum
 
 
planning to bring chaos to the streets up and down the country today
I hope the Old bill remove them as quickly as possible with force if needed
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Nguyen_Sinh_Cung Posted on 31/08/2019 08:08

Momentum

 
Viva the revolution comrade
It's for a brighter new world
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exgaffer Posted on 31/08/2019 09:19

Momentum

 
Momentum hahahahahahaha.

One brain cell between them and a total irrelevance.
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24

Momentum

 
Some pillock of a spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24

Momentum

 
Some pillock of a spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24

Momentum

 
Some pillock of a spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24

Momentum

 
Some pillock of a spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24

Momentum

 
Some pillock of a spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 09:24
Edited On: 31/08/2019 09:26
Momentum

 
oops site playing up
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Deebo Posted on 31/08/2019 11:44
Edited On: 31/08/2019 11:45
Momentum

 
Didn't some pillock of a spokesman say on TV "it will be peaceful unless the police do something wrong"?
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 11:50

Momentum

 
[^]
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 31/08/2019 12:52

Momentum

 
Never heard that
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Tomsk Posted on 31/08/2019 13:25

Momentum

 
Some pillock said what?
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Cressers Posted on 31/08/2019 13:31

Momentum

 
It seems unbelievable, but some people are actually demonstrating for the EU to be able to dictate to them what sort of light bulbs they can use, and how powerful their vacuum cleaner motors should be.

It takes all sorts...
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same_old_pompey Posted on 31/08/2019 14:26

Momentum

 
Seems crazy people would protest and friggin vote to make their own life worse....but it's happening!
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fcpompey Posted on 31/08/2019 15:00

Momentum

 
Some police spokesman said on TV "it will be peaceful unless the pillocks do something wrong"
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exgaffer Posted on 31/08/2019 17:21
Edited On: 31/08/2019 17:22
Momentum

 
Yes Same Old, unbelievably a lot of people voted to make their lives worse by staying in the failing EU. They thereby proved themselves to be sheep-like globalist puppets,

Fortunately more people voted to improve their lives by leaving.

Phew, thank feck for that [cr].

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northstandgeorge Posted on 31/08/2019 17:31

Momentum

 
Yeah England was a land of milk and honey back in the days before 1973.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 17:37

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Gotta love the irony. Carrying placards that say "Defend Democracy" and "Death of Democracy" while protesting to stop a democratic referendum result that the majority of MPs don't seem to want to honour.
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 31/08/2019 17:43

Momentum

 
No9t quite that straightforward though is it? Most people are protesting to stop a no deal, not stopping brexit
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turktown20 Posted on 31/08/2019 17:48

Momentum

 
dont kid yourself this is all about staying in the EU
Gina Miller and her like have caused some much trouble since we voted to leave
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 17:51

Momentum

 
If you believe that utterly ridiculous excuse words fail me.

The vote was leave or remain, parliament voted to trigger article 50.

Corbyn is even more desperate to become PM than the bufoon.

join the dots.
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 31/08/2019 18:04

Momentum

 
Assuming you are replying to me Muschi..tell me then why did May bother to negotiate anything.Why didn't she sit out the 12 months and leave.
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Bileyspoisedagain Posted on 31/08/2019 18:08

Momentum

 
Because May couldn’t negotiate buying a cup of tea at a village fete.
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 31/08/2019 18:09

Momentum

 
Exactly,so then why bother
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turktown20 Posted on 31/08/2019 18:12

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May was/is a remainer she just did as she was told by the Eu
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 31/08/2019 18:16

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Actually they are protesting about closing parliament more than they are about a no deal, although that is obviously part of it and I doubt if the few that really want a no deal will be joining the protests.

But they should be. Can you imagine the outrage if Corbyn became caretaker and this first action was to close parliament so they could not stop him withdrawing article 50 ?

Preventing parliament from discussing such a serious issue can never be justified in any circumstances by any prime minister of any flavour. I find it astonishing that people have become so bored with brexit that they are no longer objecting enough to the no deal disaster - not wanting no deal was about the only thing uniting both sides of the leave/remain debate a few months ago - and even more astonishing that people are so entrenched in their brexit views that they can even consider justifying closing parliament to force through an unpopular policy.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 18:36

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Every day that passes while we are still in Brexit limbo the country suffers. Our currency has no chance of rebounding until we leave. The likes of Corbyn and co would see us stay in that limbo for years if necessary or to have a deal that effectively sees us tied to EU rule without any say in any processes. They want to play poker with the EU negotiators all the while showing them all our cards. They would see us with no position of power or leverage. All they while failing to deliver on a referendum result that offered two options, Leave or Remain. We have not left and the elected officials refuse to honour that result, have left us in limbo and would prefer to reverse the result through any means they see fit. They openly show contempt for people that voted to Leave and believe they know better. The disregard for the democratically conducted referendum result is nothing short of arrogance.

Rather than being scared of No Deal and using it as an advantage in negotiations they should show some bravery this country is known for. No Deal does not mean people can't travel to the EU. It doesn't mean we can't trade, in fact it creates a sense of urgency on both sides to get a deal done as the longer a trade agreement doesn't exist it continues to hurt both parties. They will want to have a trade deal as much as us. Countries just don't stop when trading under WTO rules.

Will it be a challenge, Yes. Will it take time, Yes. Can it be done, Yes. All this fear mongering and mass hysteria is embarrassing. Rather than being scared maybe we should focus on making elected officials accountable and fixing a political system that has suffered and failed over the last 2 years.
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muschi Posted on 31/08/2019 18:41

Momentum

 
FFS deep the protest were organised by momentum, we all know what their objectives are.

May's job was to drag it out for as long as possible, to the point where any deal sound good, even though anything proposed so far is brino.
Therefore not meeting the objective of most leave voters. ((which are not just finance based)
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exgaffer Posted on 31/08/2019 18:53

Momentum

 
Deep are you fecking serious?

Thet’ve been debating this to death for more than three fecking years. If the treacherous XXXXXXs were that keen on debate they would have cancelled their break wouldn’t they? I had to laugh when the ‘neutral’ speaker Berkow (fecking weasel) said this was a ‘Constitutional Outrage’ but that he wouldn’t comment further as he was on holiday.

Boris should have closed that XXXXXX show down until November 1st so the traitors, aided and abetted by our disgraceful judiciary couldn’t stop us leaving AGAIN.

We voted to leave and we must leave, anything less would be disastrous for our ‘democracy’. The bare faced hypocrisy of the retards complaining about things not being democratic, when they’ve spent years actively trying to subvert democracy, is absolutely stunning.

The other hilarious thing is the ‘million signature’ (yeah right) petition. No multiple signing there then [cr][cr][cr]
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 31/08/2019 19:37

Momentum

 
Gaffer

A no-deal brexit has been more likely for several weeks now and no-one took to the streets. It was only when he announced he was closing down parliament that the demonstrations started. Most of those on the streets will never have heard of Momentum, they are there to defend the democratic process.

But you seem to be confusing a no deal brexit with the brexit being discussed when a majority voted for it. No-one has ever voted for a no deal brexit, it was not on the ballot paper in the referendum so there is no democratic mandate for it. In fact on the only occasion there has been a democratic vote on the subject the majority against from both sides of the brexit argument was overwhelming.
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Phiction Posted on 31/08/2019 19:48

Momentum

 
i wouldn't bother deep , just look at the vitriol in his last post , he's foaming at the mouth , the only thing he wants is his precious brexit regardless of the consequences, common sense won't work, there is no talking a brextard down
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turktown20 Posted on 31/08/2019 19:55

Momentum

 
doesn't matter what they are protesting about anyway the vote was leave so lets just get on with it
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 20:05
Edited On: 31/08/2019 20:11
Momentum

 
The option listed during the referendum was to Leave or Remain. The result was to Leave. You are the one confusing it Deep. You are trying to create different questions or options, which were never asked or offered? You are just like the Remainers in their arrogance making assumptions. I voted Leave and am fine with a No Deal Brexit and you have no right to assume that I only want to Leave with a deal. Deal or No Deal is irrelevant to me. If you think there is no appetite for that just remind yourself of the recent success the Brexit party had in the elections.

The MPs job is to deliver on that democratic referendum result. That is the only mandate they have. They refuse to do that after the initial time period has expired. We are no closer now that we were when we invoked Article 50. The elected officials now have to deliver the results of that referendum. They have had nearly 3 years to debate it and when someone finally has the balls to get the job done they are trying everything to prevent democracy prevailing and delivering the referendum result, which was to leave.

You talk about a democratic vote on a deal, but you forget to mention one thing. That was brought about because of Gina Miller and our failing judicial system. The voting power was the transferred to the MPs, most of them Remainers, not the people who voted to Leave. If there is to be a People's vote wouldn't it make more sense and fairer to get the people who voted to Leave to decide on Deal or No Deal rather than the Remainers who never wanted to leave in the first place? We both know that is never going to happen, yet the Remainers want to have total control dictate the exit process or have another referendum in hopes of getting a different result. How is that Democratic?

Getting back to today. If the people protesting were so concerned about democracy where were they when Brexit wasn't delivered on time last March for the people who voted for it?

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turktown20 Posted on 31/08/2019 20:11

Momentum

 
great post Mick[^]
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jezzer Posted on 31/08/2019 20:21

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Deal or deal, it's irrelevant to me...Crist on a bike!! Do some XXXXXXin research!
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Cressers Posted on 31/08/2019 20:21

Momentum

 
The supposed 'Death of Democracy' amounts to a whole four extra days in addition to the usual party conference season prorogation.
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cunninglinguist Posted on 31/08/2019 20:28

Momentum

 
The vote was to leave, so Britain should leave.
However, parliament is an elected body and supposedly reflects the will of the people. It can hardly be a surprise that with only 37% of the population voting for Brexit (a majority?), A consensus on how we leave is somewhat complicated. 63% of the population didn't vote for it and their views should still count for something. It isn't a competition, FFS!
Johnson's ploy, of denying an elected body a voice, is far worse than Brexit or no Brexit, in my book. No one has any voice on the subject unless you are one of a minority who voted for exit from Europe at any cost.

That is tantamount to a dictatorship!
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 20:28

Momentum

 
Deal or No Deal is irrelevant to me at this point. This has dragged on far too long and I don't want the can kicked down the road any more. I have done research and have previously lived and worked in North America for a number of years where the only major trade agreement was NAFTA, the free trade agreement between Canada, Mexico ant the USA. Standard WTO was used for most trade. Canada and the US didn't spiral into 3rd world economies so it does work in the absence of a detailed trade agreement.

So I think I've experienced the other side, have done research and survived to tell the tale.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 20:38

Momentum

 
Although I appreciate and understand the point you are trying to make cunninglinguist in any voting system those that choose not to vote can't later be brought back in to help with statistics. You could easily turn that statistic around and say that only a similar percentage actually chose to remain. It goes both ways.
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Fratton Posted on 31/08/2019 20:48

Momentum

 
GODB said "But you seem to be confusing a no deal brexit with the brexit being discussed when a majority voted for it. No-one has ever voted for a no deal brexit, it was not on the ballot paper in the referendum so there is no democratic mandate for it."

Cameron said before the referendum that a vote to leave would mean we would leave, no further negotiations, he also said the " once in a lifetime vote would be final and the voice of the electorate would be delivered. So I would say that was a vote for no deal but maybe no further negotiations means something else.
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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 31/08/2019 21:07
Edited On: 31/08/2019 21:33
Momentum

 
I see the dark side's chief parliamentary puppet Oliver letwin is at the forefront of tryto stop the suspension of Parliament. Is there anything the Remainers won't trying to stop democracy.
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Bedblockers Posted on 31/08/2019 21:31

Momentum

 
At NO point during the referendum run up was it ever stated by anyone that a deal would precede leaving the EU. The 17.4 m that voted leave knew this. It is a twisted myth by Remainers that leaving with a deal, was what leavers were voting for. All deals with the EU were off until we had officially left.

Still, any tactic to stop Brexit.





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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 31/08/2019 21:37

Momentum

 
The 17.4 million also never knew that 3 years later that we would still be tucked under the EU wing, and sveral members of the establishment had tried step by step to prevent the country leaving.

Next week will be fascinating. If the establishment succeed in preventing parliaments suspension - I can finally see people taking to the streets. I would love to see Hong Kong style protests.
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same_old_pompey Posted on 31/08/2019 21:41
Edited On: 31/08/2019 21:42
Momentum

 
Bedblockers this is going to blow your mind.

Link: Scroll down to the Bojo billboard
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 31/08/2019 21:44

Momentum

 
MQPT,

I couldn't agree more that the parliamentatians blocking of Brexit after the peoples vote has been very undemocratic, but remember that without brexiteers voting against it we would have been out months ago. But we are not talking about that are we. The issue is whether it can ever be right to shut down parliament to force through an unpopular policy, or even a popular one. IMO it never can be and the rights or wrongs of the issue concerned are totally irrelevant.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 31/08/2019 21:58
Edited On: 31/08/2019 22:03
Momentum

 
Deep, that is why I said in my original response "Rather than being scared maybe we should focus on making elected officials accountable and fixing a political system that has suffered and failed over the last 2 years"

BTW, it wasn't just Brexiteers that voted against May's deal. The Remainers didn't want that deal either, they voted against it and wanted another vote ignoring the referendum result and the mandate it created.
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Bedblockers Posted on 01/09/2019 02:52

Momentum

 
Same old Pompey, that is dated 2017 . The referendum was in 2016 and what I've stated is correct about the referendum.

Also, What one politician said 2 years ago under Remainer Theresa Mays tenure isn't even remotely relevant when you consider 250 of them are now trying to stop Brexit after getting elected on fake promises. Btw I voted to leave the EU, I never voted for Boris Johnson.
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Briefcase_wanchor Posted on 01/09/2019 03:31

Momentum

 
For those who support BoJo shutting down Parliament, question is, in what other circumstances would you support Parliament being shut down?
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smirnoffexpress Posted on 01/09/2019 06:37

Momentum

 
Brexit means leaving as was voted for in the correct democratic manner. Those in Parliament that wish us to remain have used the deal/no deal argument to further their own agenda. That being to stay in the EU. They have not wanted a deal and will only consider any deal if it keeps us tied to the EU.
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cunninglinguist Posted on 01/09/2019 08:03

Momentum

 
Yeah, technically, you're right Mick. Like I said, this isn't a competition and this ill thought out referendum has proved to be very divisive. The people have voted for Brexit and that should happen. Now people should vote on how that happens.
Whichever way you look at it, only 37% of people (and probably less than that now, given that no deal is not the preferred option for many brexiteers) are now being represented. That isn't democratic or right.
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exgaffer Posted on 01/09/2019 10:11

Momentum

 
Cunning, in that case no government we ever have is ‘democratically’ elected.

If you want to change the way we decide elections, campaign for it ffs.

As it stands, the referendum result must be honoured.

As for the ‘way it is carried out’, the referendum was quite specific. Cameron said again and again that, if we voted to Leave, Article 50 would be triggered and that if we couldn’t agree a deal in 2 years we would leave on WTO terms.

It has now been more than 3 years and Remainers have used every trick in the book to stop us leaving. As for the ‘less now’ comment, that’s wishful thinking on your part. I know quite a few people who voted to Remain but are so disgusted at the undemocratic ‘toys out of the pram’ antics of Remainer MPs that they would now vote for a clean break from the EU.

These people realise that you tamper with the democratic process at your peril.

You can’t ignore a vote just because you don’t like the result.
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northstandgeorge Posted on 01/09/2019 12:24

Momentum

 
If we leave (still dont trust Boris on anything suspect he will try and force through May's deal with some tinkering around the backstop)and it all goes pear shaped we will be back in within 5 years. Corbyn will likely be retired or dead. The Torys will be toast and we can start the whole charade again. Happy days
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turktown20 Posted on 01/09/2019 12:44

Momentum

 
hopfully the EU as it is would have collapsed by then
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 01/09/2019 12:56

Momentum

 
Gaffer

"It has now been more than 3 years and Remainers have used every trick in the book to stop us leaving."

You still havent grasped it have you ? The remainers did not have the power to stop Brexit without the support of the Johnson/Rees-Mogg crew who added their support to the remain cause for purely personal political gain. There only agenda was to get rid of May. It was an internal Tory party battle with the public's mandate for leaving as collateral damage. The brexit wing of the tory party are the reason we are still trying to leave.

And don't forget Johnson was a rabid pro-european until about a week before the referendum campaign started so who knows what outcome he is really aiming at now.

But all this is irrelevant to the main question now. Can it ever be right to suspend Parliament for your own gain ? Forget why he has done it and ask whether anyone ever should be able to do it for any reason because IMO it is the most dangerous precedent that could ever be set.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 01/09/2019 14:05
Edited On: 01/09/2019 15:28
Momentum

 
Deep, you have it wrong again. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and co didn't support May because her deal still left us tied too closely to the EU. They never supported the Remain cause and were even talking about No Deal last year. Once it became apparent May was trying to please everyone, but not actually pleasing anyone they attempted to remove her at the end of last year. After repeated attempts to force through her deal they final removed her. Her own fault really. A remainder should have never been put in charge of delivering Brexit and she was too stubborn to make any changes.

The Brexit wing of the Tory party is not the reason we are leaving it is the result of a public referendum. They are the government rsponsible for carrying out that mandate, something a lot of them have seemingly forgot and ignore.
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northstandgeorge Posted on 01/09/2019 14:40

Momentum

 
Your right on Rees Mogg he has always been an avid remainer. Boris is a proven liar and charlatan. As the mayor of London he was definitely a pro remainer. I think he gambled on leave to achieve his long held ambition to be prime minister.It will all end in tears anyway just xha question whether it before Oct 31st or not
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cunninglinguist Posted on 01/09/2019 14:44

Momentum

 
Reread my post, Gaff. I clearly stated, from the outset, that Brexit should happen!

The method being used is totally undemocratic.
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same_old_pompey Posted on 01/09/2019 14:52

Momentum

 
Even Cummings is remain, this is all just a game to keep Farage out of the HOC. Long may it continue.

Thankfully (as evidenced on here) the thicko Gammons are falling for it. Even when presented with food and medicine shortages, this whole situation is about the best exercise in Cognitive Dissonance the world has ever seen.
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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 01/09/2019 15:03

Momentum

 
I have stated from day one that the EU is undemocratic and has now become a bureaucratic monster which will eventually want an army, in addition to taxing us to the hilt.

If you want to take back some semblance of power for the people, the EU link needs culling first. The UK government can then be attacked every few years.

For the establishment to 'really' want us to leave the EU, they are playing an amazing game of smoke and mirrors. The games of May, Cooper, Letwin, Miller, Hammond, Starmer, Grieve, Bercow, Major, Blair etc - over 3 years - tells me that the establishment are extremely desperate for us to remain in the EU. Absolutely desperate. We haven't seen anything quite like this in our lifetimes.
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pompeyhighlander Posted on 01/09/2019 15:16

Momentum

 
Momentum: sounds a bit less threatening than Marxist but that's all that can be said for it. If we end up with that rabble in charge, it will be down to the extremists at the other end of the scale.

By the way, what happened to the "smooth orderly Brexit" promised in the 2017 Tory manifesto?
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Deebo Posted on 01/09/2019 15:21
Edited On: 01/09/2019 15:22
Momentum

 
I've just got back off holiday. The plane went really fast all the way home. The thing on the back of the seat said it was travelling at 650mph which is really moving!
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 01/09/2019 15:36

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MQPT

You misread my post ... I said the Brexit wing of the Tory party is the reason we haven't left, not the reason for leaving. By joining with the remainers by blocking the deal they effectively stopped it happening. We should have got out when we could and sorted out the backstop problem afterwards.
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 01/09/2019 16:44
Edited On: 01/09/2019 16:45
Momentum

 
No, I read it perfectly. You can't blame the Brexit wing of the Tories as the reason we haven't left yet, that's ludicrous. You can blame Labour, Lib Debs, Change UK, SNP and whomever else whose agenda is to Remain in the EU, but blaming Brexiteers in the Tory party is just deflecting the real issue. You can even blame Theresa May whose stubbornness and inflexibility led us to that point. You can't sit here and just blame Brexiteers for voting down a bad deal when all the other parties I mentioned did the same thing. Whereas the aforementioned parties want to stop Brexit altogether the Brexiteers motivation was No Deal is better than the bad deal May presided over. If you are going simplify the issue and blame people start with Theresa May and all the MPs who voted against the deal, not just Brexiteers who voted against it.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 01/09/2019 17:54

Momentum

 
If Brexiteers can't make it happen, there's obviously not a big enough majority in favour of it.

It all comes back to Cameron - if he'd announced a referendum with a mandatory implementation on the result it would have needed a 60-40-ish majority, by calling an advisory referendum it was permissable to have the majority level set at 50+. And then he went and made the advisory mandatory.
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smirnoffexpress Posted on 01/09/2019 18:17

Momentum

 
There is a big enough majority outside of Parliament and the EU elite. It is our politicians that have tried their hardest to ensure we stay in. Acting like the spoilt brat,middle class mongs that most of them are.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 01/09/2019 18:23
Edited On: 01/09/2019 18:28
Momentum

 
Well you might think that but in all the polls taken since the 2016 referendum, the leave vote has only been in the majority on six occasions (out of 61 polls) - and all six were very slender majorities and for very, very short periods.

Don't shoot me, I'm just sayin...
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/
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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 01/09/2019 19:03

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Labour v Tory polls


Do they conduct most of these polls in coffee shops, bistros and wine bars?

Link: Why are they all so biaised to the left?
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 01/09/2019 19:27

Momentum

 
As opposed to ?
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TufnellChimes Posted on 01/09/2019 19:27
Edited On: 01/09/2019 19:28
Momentum

 
Gulf, if you click through those stats you can see actual percentages on actual dates with the actual polling companies stated: YouGov, Survation, BMG, etc. What you've posted is a link to someone's personal blog.
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muschi Posted on 01/09/2019 19:34

Momentum

 
A few thoughts, Mays deal was not really leaving the EU, no end of freedom of movement, the backstop ties us in for an indefinite period we still have to pay in but have no voice on future policies. Various other items which mean brexit in name only.

In the meantime we allow eastern european mafias to carry on freely while laughing at us for being such mugs.

Should the remainers try to take control of parliament again boris is hinting he will flood the ho lords with tory peers to ensure it doesn't
become law.

A deal will be struck with the great man to form a coalition with the tories to form a new parliament.

carry on chaps.
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exgaffer Posted on 01/09/2019 19:38

Momentum

 
Deep you are either completely stupid or being deliberately obtuse.

We haven’t left because most of the traitors in the Commons don’t want to leave, they think they know better.

May is a Remainer and went into the negotiations on all fours. Rees Mogg and co want to leave, so they won’t accept a deal which doesn’t take us out of the EU.

We should leave without a deal, the EU will soon come in with a free trade deal, they can’t afford not to.

Cameron should have triggered Article 50 on day one but bottled it all because he wasn’t expecting a Leave victory. He slunk off like the coward he is.

We voted to leave, we must leave.

Which bit of that can’t you get through your thick skull?
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Isaac-Hunt Posted on 01/09/2019 20:02

Momentum

 
"A deal will be struck with the great man to form a coalition with the tories to form a new parliament."?

When?
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muschi Posted on 01/09/2019 20:27

Momentum

 
I'm lead to believe conversations are current. [;)]

By the way, what do people make of the new EU head honchess? the German equivalent of failing grayling with her european army (armed with broomsticks one assumes). Wasn't there another german army across europe back in the 40's?
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MickQuinnPieThief Posted on 01/09/2019 20:38
Edited On: 01/09/2019 20:44
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The other thing that I don't get is the protestors who claim Boris is trying to become a dictator and claim they want to stay in the EU. Someone needs to remind them about how the people running the EU were appointed. Not elected, appointed. They also dictate to us on a daily basis, but they seem to accept that. The amount of people who don't understand how the EU works is unbelievable. The same people that think that by leaving the EU means that they can't go to Spain any more. I actually had to explain to a younger colleague that in or out of Europe she still needed a passport to visit other EU countries.
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muschi Posted on 01/09/2019 20:53

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You need a passport to fly to Scotland ffs.
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jezzer Posted on 01/09/2019 21:56

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The people running the EU were appointed by MEPs who we voted for or by our national leaders who we also voted for. These elected members, we should assume, have a far better idea of who to appoint to these positions than the average Joe Public. Not 100 percent
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jezzer Posted on 01/09/2019 22:07

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The people running the EU were appointed by MEPs who we voted for or by our national leaders who we also voted for. These elected members, we should assume, have a far better idea of who to appoint to these positions than the average Joe Public. Not 100 percent democratic i grant you but following your logic surely we should then vote on who becomes the Head of the Civil Service or the Metropolitan Police for example? As to dictating to us, that's a load of cobblers and reflects more than anything in the type of newspaper or website you read.
I would also suggest your younger colleague is a bit thick and can be placed in the same category as those who voted Brexit as they thought it would reduce the number of Pakistanis living in their neighbourhood.
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Ghost_of_DeepBlue Posted on 01/09/2019 22:37

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Gaffer

Of course I think we should leave ... that was what people voted for so we have to do it even if I don't agreee with the reasons for doing so, but leaving with no deal is a different level of economic suicide and will cause problems that leaving with a deal would not.

I can even accept leaving with no deal if that is really the only way out even if I think it is a really stupid idea, and part of me wants to believe that Boris is faking wanting no deal because he is convinced it strengthens his hand for a late deal because I think he really is that dim, but I cannot accept shutting down parliament to force it through. If he gets away with shutting down parliament to force his own agenda there will be no point having elections or having any form of democracy in the future, cos all any PM has to do is close parliament and do whatever he/she wants.

The fact that you have avoided answering that point throughout this thread, constantly bringing it back to he rights and wrongs of Brexit rather than proroguement, tells me that you know you are on dodgy ground on that one.
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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 01/09/2019 22:56

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Yes, and YouGov appears to be the only one that fluctuates between leave and remain. ie ignore almost all of the other polls.
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muschi Posted on 01/09/2019 23:33

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Jezzer "The people running the EU were appointed by MEPs" in fact that is not true, the latest elite were chosen by the last elite with no vote taking place. Source the Brexit party MEPs.

I challenge you to supply date of such elections and details of results.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 02/09/2019 07:28

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Gulf, YouGov was co-founded by Tory minister, Nadim Zahawi, and Stephen Shakespeare, owner of Conservative Home, so probably best ignored as they have skin in the game.
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bluebob Posted on 02/09/2019 12:49

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Something to ponder on. A Steel plant in Wales is closing with the loss of 380 jobs due to the EU vetoing a buyout from Thyssenkrupp Steel company.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 02/09/2019 14:08

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That merger/buyout failed back in May. And part of the EU's reasoning for not supporting it was that it could have led to the loss of 650 jobs at the Trostre plant just up the road. Swimming through the shallow end of the internet gives us all something to ponder.
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muschi Posted on 02/09/2019 14:44

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Beeb reporting the cabinet will meet this afternoon to discuss (sorry dsmg [:P]) a general election.
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pompeyhighlander Posted on 02/09/2019 15:03

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Marxist to the left of us. Crooks to the right of us. Time for a very large Jack Daniels.

Link: Washington Post
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northstandgeorge Posted on 02/09/2019 16:33

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An election will be interesting. Will the Brexit party trust Boris to deliver (unlikely as Boris is a proven liar) Will the remand vote tactically (probably but not in enough constituencies) The result could quite possibly be another hung parliament. This could go on for years. con
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Gulf_of_Tonking Posted on 02/09/2019 17:03

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I would normally look straight at who owns any institution, but when you have certain poll organisations whose polls always sit on one side of the fence in such a close contest, you can just ignore them without even needing to look up who owns them.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 02/09/2019 17:19
Edited On: 02/09/2019 19:56
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Polls are there to influence opinion, not measure it.
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muschi Posted on 02/09/2019 17:33

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PM statement at 18,00
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pompeyhighlander Posted on 02/09/2019 20:15

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Wow! That was totally underwhelming.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 02/09/2019 20:29

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He's been underwhelming since he got in. Now he knows there's no way of squaring the backstop circle, I guess he's basically goading the opposition to call for an election, because he doesn't want to be seen as the one that calls it. If he wins he'll tell the DUP to do one, and create a border in the Irish Sea. Northern Ireland will just have to suck it up.
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Bedblockers Posted on 02/09/2019 20:50

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I need a passport to travel to the south of France next week. Remainers are surely the thickest of the thick. They don't grasp the obvious(or don't want to) yet defend a group of corrupt unelected shysters based in Brussels, who bleed the countries finances whilst imposing stupid damaging laws/restrictions across its lands. You couldn't make it up tbh.

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motowner Posted on 02/09/2019 21:00
Edited On: 02/09/2019 21:01
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Duffers Tuffers said "He's been underwhelming since he got in"

Ha Ha Ha He's stood up to the ReMONGers, He's stood up to Brussels, he's been decisive and forthright ...unlike the UnElectable gormless fence sitter Corbyn who is in for an absolute thrashing when there is a General Election......

Bring it on .... and give the loony left what for [^]
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BilltheCat Posted on 02/09/2019 21:17

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Schengen, Bedblockers. The U.K. And Ireland opted out.
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muschi Posted on 02/09/2019 21:24
Edited On: 02/09/2019 21:58
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A memory jogger for those who moan about no deal being without mandate.

link fixed

Link: Cameron before the vote
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northstandgeorge Posted on 02/09/2019 21:34

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If there is an election how many of the 13 Tories in Scotland will retain their seats? I bet they are itching for another general election
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TufnellChimes Posted on 02/09/2019 21:39

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Hey Motowner, thanks for the casual abuse. I don't remember him standing up to Brussels - I do remember him meeting Macron and Merkel and coming back with zilch. Disaster nationalism, bring it on.
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jezzer Posted on 02/09/2019 23:01

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You would think you couldn't make it up Bedblockers but you just did.
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muschi Posted on 03/09/2019 00:13

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Actually jezzers it's you that makes things up. Still waiting for you to prove the new leaders of the EU were elected, strange you haven't proved me wrong eh?
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TufnellChimes Posted on 03/09/2019 07:12

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101.
We are all in Room 101.
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jezzer Posted on 03/09/2019 11:59

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Plenty of reading available Muschi and in a variety of languages. Check out europarl.europa.eu for a general overview and work your way from there.
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muschi Posted on 03/09/2019 12:59

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So you cant show me the results of the latest election to appoint the frau as head honcho then.
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TufnellChimes Posted on 03/09/2019 16:43

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"He's stood up to the ReMONGers, He's stood up to Brussels, he's been decisive and forthright"

Standing up to Brussels? “There was literally nothing on the table, not even a sketch of what the solution could look like,” said an EU official familiar with the latest talks with the British government.

And there goes his majority, whilst he was making his speech even.
His decisiveness and forthright behaviour is making May's tenure look commanding.

Its all unravelling. Shortest term as PM ever?
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pompeyhighlander Posted on 03/09/2019 16:58

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Boris: always a remainer until he sussed that he could improve his own prospects of being PM by being a leaver.
Jesse: always a leaver until he sussed he could improve his own prospects of being PM by being a remainer.
You couldn't make it up.
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northstandgeorge Posted on 03/09/2019 17:17

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It's quite amusing watching Boris trying to articulate anything. He makes Mrs May look like a political giant. The one good thing to come out of all this is the Tory party are imploding and becoming increasingly unelectable. If the labour party could work out a way to replace Corbyn they would XXXXXX any general election.
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