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Spartan81 Posted on 21/10/2019 19:12
MFC is imploding
 
If you watched that Sunderland documentary, the similarities between that and us now is astounding, I'm worried about the club [V]
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Angelofayresome Posted on 21/10/2019 20:40

MFC is imploding
Totally agree we have no leadership the core of players too old, not good enough or dont give a XXXXXX, I watched that documentary last year and said the same thing after 6 games this season we wont stay up. Not sure Gibson gives a toss anymore either tbh. I'm clinging on to the january transfer market we have some chance of signing a few leaders to keep us in there but not looking likely tbh.
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uncle_rico Posted on 21/10/2019 21:00

MFC is imploding
I was thinking about this after Saturday, and what the financial implications of going into League 1 next season would be?

I’m not suggesting that is what Gibson wants, but I get the impression that he wouldn’t be too bothered as I don’t think we’d be much worse off than we would be in the Championship.

No parachute payments, but no big earners. Core support would still be there and shirt sales and merchandise etc would be about the same.
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hopesoboro Posted on 21/10/2019 21:04

MFC is imploding
Sparta play in a low division in Greece.
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boro19 Posted on 21/10/2019 21:28
Edited On: 21/10/2019 21:29
MFC is imploding
They is no standard of excellence being set at the club as what improvement have Neil Bauser, Gary Gill and Adrian Bevington actually brought to Boro! The trouble is Gibson isn't ruthless enough to make the dramatic changes that are required at the Boro to stop us falling behind the times!
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Greenandblack Posted on 21/10/2019 21:31

MFC is imploding
*** I don’t think we’d be much worse off than we would be in the Championship***

I think it would be disastrous. Season ticket sales down, ticket sales down, sponsorships down enormously, virtually no tv money and merchandising down correspondingly.

Revenue going down from £120 million to £15 million in 5 years would be a huge challenge to overcome.
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Funky_Chicken Posted on 21/10/2019 21:44

MFC is imploding
You don’t think we’d be much worse off - what planet are some people on [cr]




🐔
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glover_elbow Posted on 21/10/2019 21:44

MFC is imploding
Nothing has really gone right since bausor was appointed coincidence i think not
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littledick Posted on 21/10/2019 21:57

MFC is imploding
Bausor, Gill, Bevinton.....

Doesnt matter who holds the positions, as they are just YES men, controlled by Gibbo.

Nothing that comes out of the club suggests otherwise
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Derek_Duvall Posted on 21/10/2019 22:11

MFC is imploding
Going down would be a huge disaster, make no mistake about that!
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Evil Posted on 21/10/2019 22:26

MFC is imploding
Bausor has been someone I think should be made accountable for some years.

Never seen anything positive from his tenure.
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dragged_up_in_whinneybanks Posted on 21/10/2019 22:55

MFC is imploding
A certain party on here has stated that Bausor does not have the executive authority normally possessed by a CEO .- i.e involvement in all key decisions and authority to either sign-off on these and/or refer them to the Board. This begs a question regarding what he actually does. This question was asked, but no answer was forthcoming. Either way, I can think of plenty of things that a CEO should be on top of that have gone badly wrong during his tenure, Of that, there is no doubt.
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JLinardi Posted on 21/10/2019 23:10

MFC is imploding
If I had to put a team together to run the club (based on limited fan knowledge) it would be this.

Kenyon CEO
Mowbray - DoF (built 75% of our promotion team)
Karanka - Manager, our most successful since mcclaren
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uncle_rico Posted on 22/10/2019 08:03

MFC is imploding
Of course it would be a disaster, but what I meant is that we seem to be preparing for that as a eventuality this season.

The last of the big earners’ contracts will have expired, apart from maybe Randolph, but I doubt he would still be here anyway.

The money we will be saving on wages will be bigger than anything we lose from TV money etc.

In the short terms our finances wouldn’t be too badly hit due to the money we’d be saving on wages, but if we didn’t come straight back up then we’d be in real trouble.
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DCI_Gene_Hunt Posted on 22/10/2019 09:21

MFC is imploding
Relegation to League 1 would be a total and unmitigated disaster.

And unless there's some drastic changes soon it's going to happen.
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McMordie Posted on 22/10/2019 09:49

MFC is imploding
On a positive note, we might get a new ground to visit in the FA Cup First Round next season.
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Stigmata Posted on 22/10/2019 09:51

MFC is imploding
uncle-rico *** I don’t think we’d be much worse off than we would be in the Championship***

It's that sort of defeatist attitude which some people spouted about being nice staying safely in the Championship rather than trying for the Prem.

Why don't you go and watch a nice non league side son ?

These days a club has to be in the Premier League. After all, there are plenty of clubs about Boro's level pf possible attendance and competence doing well in the PL.
At the moment Boro's management, seemingly at all levels, is useless and we are back in the bad old days without drive or enthusiasm.
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littledick Posted on 22/10/2019 09:55

MFC is imploding
McMordie…
On a positive note, we might get a new ground to visit in the FA Cup First Round next season.


That's when the loyalty scheme could prove to be a winner, unless of course Sir Steve has disbanded it by then [:D]
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BigmetsBoro86 Posted on 22/10/2019 10:04

MFC is imploding
We are probably 'glad' that we have 6-7 big earners off the books in June.

Sunderland went down with loads of big earners (Cattermole etc). We would still have Britt and Randolph who will be on a fair wedge for league 1.

I don't think it would be a financial disaster but as you see at Sunderland just because you spend a few quid and are a big league 1 club doesn't mean anything.

I just think we need to clear the decks of big earners and get some financial stability. Then get a decent recruitment model of bringing player on and selling at a profit to keep money comming in. I know its easier said than done.

We seemed to have moved away from big money buys and big wages. I for one am glad about that. I would rather see us buy a player for 1mil and sell for 5+ than buy a Braithwaite for 9mil and 42k a week over 4 years[sad]

Some of these contracts our players are on are crippling. I don't understand why we gave them out.
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DCI_Gene_Hunt Posted on 22/10/2019 10:10

MFC is imploding
People keep saying we need to get rid of the big earners.

Then what? Replace them with more of the likes of Bola, Brown & Dijksteel?

We might as well bypass League 1 and jump straight to League 2 at the end of the season.
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hopesoboro Posted on 22/10/2019 10:20

MFC is imploding
Team not doing well and folk lose interest shock!
It's football - not implosion!
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 10:25
Edited On: 22/10/2019 10:25
MFC is imploding
"Never seen anything positive from his tenure."

Wembley in 2015? Promotion in 2016?
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coluka Posted on 22/10/2019 10:26

MFC is imploding
The club is undoubtedly in decline. No amount of media spin by Woodgate can change that.

I suspect he will be one of the lowest paid head coach/manager in the league. Part of his job is to spin positivity wherever he can. He is just doing his job, I have no problem with that. The problem I have is right at the top. Control freak springs to mind.

The club and the owners investment would be better handled by a full time paid CEO with the responsibility required. A director of football would not be necessary at our level if the CEO and the manager have vision and have greater controls in their respective positions than Gibson seemingly allows.

I have never been a fan of ‘going back’ but in the current situation if we had the money to do so I would go the Kenyon Karanka route too as JLinardi posted. I don’t believe Gibson would let go though. I think he enjoys his real life version of ‘Championship Manager’ too much.

I know one thing, if he reads these boards, (I would if I were him) I suspect he occasionally will, I doubt he likes what he reads.

We all respect him for all he has done, given, paid in to keep us going and still does, nobody particularly wants him to sell up, unless he feels he needs to that is, but help to see the woods for the trees would be something that is in everyones interest right now imho
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sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 22/10/2019 10:28

MFC is imploding
Is this because the ticket manager quit? [:D]
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 10:29

MFC is imploding
"Then what? Replace them with more of the likes of Bola, Brown & Dijksteel?"

Well if you get a Gestede wage off the bill, who never plays, you can then bring in maybe 3 other players who might actually challenge the first 11. Of those 3, 1 of them might cut the mustard, which means you're at least 1 player better off.
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 10:33

MFC is imploding
Col, a non-leading question if I may.

This season, nothing is Woodgate's fault (fair enough) because he has such an inept chairman etc and a terrible recruitment team.

Why was that not the case with Pulis? He got us 5th and 7th despite the 'woeful' Gibson. How well might he have done if he'd had a decent chairman, director of football, and recruitment team?
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hopesoboro Posted on 22/10/2019 10:46

MFC is imploding
The rules are different in Cloud Colukaland![:D]
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Londons_Moggie Posted on 22/10/2019 10:47

MFC is imploding
Grow some balls ffs. Constant negativity does nothing to help
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truthBomb Posted on 22/10/2019 10:57

MFC is imploding
do not fear.
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coluka Posted on 22/10/2019 12:41
Edited On: 22/10/2019 12:45
MFC is imploding
No problem atypical. (Apologies to everyone else (except hopeless) for the length of response) According to both Gibson and TP, Pulis was employed as an experienced manager with full responsibility to undertake a full review of the entire set up at the club and to implement change. He was not just a head coach.

That said, I thought he did a really good job with the squad he inherited and his first 5 months were fine by me. He hauled us into the play offs, had Bamford scoring for fun, Besic looked a player etc. He lost me in the play offs. He didn’t try to win, he tried to nick it and we were woeful, although some credit goes to Villa too.

His wrecking of the squad and signings he openly approved and wanted were poor. I gave him credit for being open about the need for pace and like Karanka told the fans that issue lay with others to sort for him.

He was doing well up to the international break, the squad had injuries but with Tav, Wing etc we were doing well. Post the international break he reverted to experience and hoofball and we were never the same thereafter. The football was a dire, turgid watch, but ok he had us in the play off areas. That run of 6 games near the end was mostly down to him, his selection, substitutions, in game management was poor, we had become a team trying not to lose. Our home form shocking, his verbal attacks on a player were odd. Remember too, Gibson chose not to keep him, not because of the fans, money i would suggest.

As for Woodgate, some things are his fault, but he is new to the role. He has been given a job to do under Gibsons remit. He is a head coach with far less responsibility than that of manager. He will have been told to spin the positivity bit and be a deflector shield for the owner. He knew exactly what he was agreeing to at the start I am sure, he is doing as tasked, coaching the squad, and heading up team affairs on a day to day basis. I like his frankness after games, but I liked Pulis’s frankness too

Transfers, I expect he has input but not the final decision. If anyone bought his comment about his powerpoint presentation and Djiksteel and Bola were on it as his top 2 targets then the gullibility levels must be high. He will have known beggar all about a league one RB and LB as last season he was too busy with the first team. If a powerpoint presentation existed (which I doubt) but if it did I would not be surprised if the club put it together for him to present [;)]

Woody is culpable for his decisions though, but not the approach and set up and recruitment and/or retention of players and contracts etc.

I like his drive positivity and passion, but realise he is doing the bidding of his paymasters (rightly so) That is why I don't hold him largely responsible for our plight. Do I think a more experienced manager or Pulis himself would do better results wise? yes I do, but it would be hard to bring in an experienced ‘yes man’ manager without money to buy it.

Financially speaking, I expect Woodgate to be in charge even if we go down tbh. A workman is only as good as the tools he has to perform his job. If he were a junior doctor, Woodgate would currently be trying to fit a new, lung and kidney in a patient using a set from a 70 yr old chainsmoker and having a steak knife, needle and cotton, and a few plasters to do it with a set of written instructions on how to perform it from Matt hankok, hence why I hold others more accountable for the job he is being asked to perform.
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 12:44

MFC is imploding
Ok Col but, genuinely, how do you think Pulis would have done here this season if we'd had a 'decent' chairman and recruitment? Play-offs again? Win the league at a canter? Worse than we are doing now?
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Indeedido Posted on 22/10/2019 12:57

MFC is imploding
Good post Coluka[^]

atypical - my answer to your last question would be that we would be bottom half of this league, playing awful football.
My answer to your earlier query would be that of course Woodgate has not done well. As Head Coach he needs to get the most out of whatever squad he has. I don't think he is, so of course he is partly responsible for where we are. However, he is a small part. The squad is not his responsibility (yet) and neither is the accompanying budget.
There are others far more culpable for our plight than Woodgate.
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coluka Posted on 22/10/2019 13:00
Edited On: 22/10/2019 13:08
MFC is imploding
I believe Gibson is decent man, honourable and wants the best for the club. If by decent you meant a chairman who made better decisions and was a visionary then ok.

If by decent recruitment you mean a group that can spot quality, potential and know what constitutes building a team and in doing so does not assume you can put square pegs in round holes, ok.

I believe Pulis with the above and if finances were there for it to happen, he would have us in the play offs maybe even get promoted. I said above that I believe we would not be as low as we are if he were here now, but nowhere near the top 6. However, with Pulis, you have to accept a style of play and a form of football that is not easy on the eye. I believe he can be effective but unimaginary in blend and style. I also accept he was not given the pace and creativity that I, he and others before him have banged on about, including the chairman himself in May 2017. If anything we have far less pace and creativity than when we really needed it in the PL.
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uncle_rico Posted on 22/10/2019 13:17

MFC is imploding
What are you on about Stigmata? Maybe you should actually read what people post...son.
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JLinardi Posted on 22/10/2019 14:37

MFC is imploding
The thing with pulis is we had possibly the worst summer transfer window I can remember, he sold our best striker and replaced him with hugill, looked to have recommended the club spend a fortune on bolasie who then went to villa who got shot of him at the first opportunity.

He had us playing brilliant for the first few weeks, then changed everything after the international break and we played awful for months. He couldn’t get the best out of hugill which even QPR are doing, our passing stats were shocking and it wasn’t until he finally ditched that awful 433 for 352 that we picked up form again, we somehow got 7th despite going on a 6 game losing streak, which included defeats to some awful teams.

Pulis would be doing better than woodgate is without a doubt, but you’re missing the bigger picture, we would NEVER have progressed under pulis, we would have slowly got worse until his contract ran out (if he had a longer one). Our signings while he was here were awful, the attacking signings were none existent, he criminally under used McNair, who on evidence of this season would have been one of our best players.

We had a good defence under pulis but even then wasn’t as good as karankas defence, we looked shakey at the back because he clearly didn’t care about retaining posession, meaning we were under pressure at the back for long periods of the game.

We looked clueless going forward, our set pieces were awful, we sat far to deep, our form of playing out from the back was just to smash it up field at any opportunity.

Keeping pulis would have achieved nothing more than a slower decline, we would NOT have improved the squad and would not have came close to promotion had he stayed. If he couldn’t do it with traore and bamford in the team then he was never going to do it.
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 14:47

MFC is imploding
"Keeping pulis would have achieved nothing more than a slower decline, we would NOT have improved the squad and would not have came close to promotion had he stayed."

OK, well even if thats true, wouldn't it have been better than a fairly rapid decline and relegation dogfight?

Put it this way, I'd happily take Pulisball now if it meant being back in the play-off picture.
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JLinardi Posted on 22/10/2019 14:55

MFC is imploding
What makes you think we’d have been back in the promotion picture? We would have been midtable I’m
Pretty sure of that.

At the end of the day his contract had ran out and we most likely couldn’t afford to renew it and I’m glad we didn’t go down the route of paying someone a fortune to slowly ruin the club.

The problem wasn’t pulis leaving it was once again the poor choice of replacement. You seem to be thinking from the angle that it was pulis or woodgate and forgetting the hundreds of other managers out there we could have gone for. The fans didn’t employ or want woodgate and I don’t get why you keep making posts implying that it’s the fans fault. If you want to make that kind of point then blame the fans who hounded karanka out when he had us in the premiership.
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atypical_boro Posted on 22/10/2019 15:04

MFC is imploding
"What makes you think we’d have been back in the promotion picture? We would have been midtable I’m pretty sure of that."

Oh ok, fair enough if I've got that wrong.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 22/10/2019 15:33

MFC is imploding
There's no doubt in my mind that we are a club in decline and I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet. I see us dropping down to league 1 in the next couple of seasons.

The only thing that would convince me otherwise would be if the club employed some new faces behind the scenes because our decision making off the pitch is dreadful.
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