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Funky_Chicken Posted on 08/10/2019 12:21
Merkel rings Boris
 
To say a deal is very unlikely - quelle surprise [8)] you can fcuk right off Boris [:D]




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Ticker_Tape Posted on 08/10/2019 12:25

Merkel rings Boris
Hes bringing Fox hunting back for you RWNJ dingles.
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UKLL1981 Posted on 08/10/2019 12:26

Merkel rings Boris
Letís get a extension then veto/block everything. Bring the EU down from the inside [^]

Who knows maybe now we will flout or break the same number of EU rules that German does and gets away with.
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Small_town Posted on 08/10/2019 12:34

Merkel rings Boris
Well thatís a sensible response...
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UKLL1981 Posted on 08/10/2019 12:35

Merkel rings Boris
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WM2B0

Meanwhile the gravy train keeps rolling on. All aboard. Choo choo!
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borobuddah Posted on 08/10/2019 12:36

Merkel rings Boris
ďGerrinterem and fcuk them upĒ 😀
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Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster_ Posted on 08/10/2019 12:37

Merkel rings Boris
Donít worry the German car industry will be here to rescue us any minute now.....
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Funky_Chicken Posted on 08/10/2019 12:42

Merkel rings Boris
Boris inching towards his no deal wet dream - think heís in for a shock though



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asredastheycome Posted on 08/10/2019 12:45

Merkel rings Boris
UKLL1981 we have probably spent more than that on this Brexit fiasco.
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BoroJake Posted on 08/10/2019 13:01

Merkel rings Boris
Brexit had cost us 66bn by April. Who knows what it is now
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Ironops Posted on 08/10/2019 15:05

Merkel rings Boris
Im increasingly of the view that the 'no deal' talk is just to win the BXP lot over in the election, get a majority and then we will leave with something very similar to the T May deal [:D]

If you really do want no deal (and i certainly do not) then the only way you will get it is to vote BXP

Vote Boris, get May's deal [^][8)]
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UKLL1981 Posted on 08/10/2019 15:12
Edited On: 08/10/2019 15:14
Merkel rings Boris
Perhaps but once Brexit is done it will be over, that EU gravy train with its mismanagement and its misuse of funds is never ending. Donít see how anyone can defend it regardless of how they voted. Itís a black hole of money with no end in sight. Itís shocking when you see what the EU wastes money on and what MEPs are Ďentitledí to. The same people that defend it are the ones that moan about our MPs expenses or a lack of funding for services in this country. Would personally rather see the NHS get more money than some vanity project in Romania that someone is probably getting rich from.
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Lefty Posted on 08/10/2019 15:25

Merkel rings Boris
'Perhaps but once Brexit is done it will be over'

Lol. Do you actually understand anything?

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Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster_ Posted on 08/10/2019 15:51

Merkel rings Boris
Day one of a ďClean Break BrexitĒ, Boris asks EU for a trade deal and the EU asks for the following:

1) Pay us our £39 billion
2) Propose a solution for the Irish Border
3) Protect rights of EU citizens

Many years of negotiations begin.

Doesnít sound like much of a clean break
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Bergeracois Posted on 08/10/2019 16:11

Merkel rings Boris
"Letís get a extension then veto/block everything. Bring the EU down from the inside [^]"

Other than the fact that you're a complete knob, why would you want to do that ?
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Funky_Chicken Posted on 08/10/2019 16:20

Merkel rings Boris
I still say Brexit wonít happen [smi]





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Mavrick Posted on 08/10/2019 16:21

Merkel rings Boris
Question.

So a law was passed saying we canít leave Europe without a deal. However, the political circus canít come to an agreement and the EU wonít agree to a deal that we see as favourable.

So, does this situation keep us in the EU with Brexit extensions continually being abused which in turn essentially defies the diplomatic result of the referendum?

Iím so confused with this situation [?]
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Lefty Posted on 08/10/2019 16:30

Merkel rings Boris
The EU have agreed a deal with us, they even made a huge concession.

The future relationship is something they have been waiting patiently for over three years for us to tell them what we would like that to be. They gave us many templates - the Barnier Steps - but we want one that takes us out but still in, without having to obey the rules, pay anything but still reap all the benefits, effectively destroying the Single Market. It's unicorns, cake and eat it, english exceptionalism.

Luckily enough MP's are intelligent and decent enough and our constitution robust enough to stop this. A General Election does threaten that.
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Small_town Posted on 08/10/2019 17:12

Merkel rings Boris
Mavrik Iím absolutely staggered at the amount of times Iíve had to explain this in the last 3 years but the referendum was ADVISORY
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Greenandblack Posted on 08/10/2019 17:17

Merkel rings Boris
***the referendum was ADVISORY***

The fact that it is billed as "not binding" or "advisory" is entirely and completely irrelevant.

If the government was not bound in honour to obey the result, there would be no point in holding referenda at all. Nobody would bother to vote on the basis that it may turn out to be a waste of time.
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Small_town Posted on 08/10/2019 17:25

Merkel rings Boris
Not necessarily. There mat be circumstances where a governments begin to act on an advisory referendum. Only for it to quickly to become clear that doing so would be a huge clusterf**k that would divide the nation and make us all poorer and make society less stable.

Not that I can think of that ever happening but, hypothetically it could.
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Small_town Posted on 08/10/2019 17:27

Merkel rings Boris
Imagine there is a group of you going out for a meal. Slightly over half of you says ďOh I want to go to the Ming Dynasty on the high streetĒ

So thatís where you plan to go. However you then check trip advisor and find nothing but reports of rude staff, bad food and high prices. Then you check the food standards agency and find itís got a 2 out of 5 rating.

Do you still go? Or do you tell everyone what you found and give them a chance to reconsider?
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Theodore_Bear Posted on 08/10/2019 17:30

Merkel rings Boris
@UKLL:

"EU gravy train with its mismanagement" - examples please.

"misuse of funds" - examples please.

"Itís a black hole of money" - please explain why with examples and figures.

"Itís shocking when you see what the EU wastes money on" - give us examples please.

"what MEPs are Ďentitledí to" - provide details please.

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jimstewart Posted on 08/10/2019 17:48

Merkel rings Boris
It may well have been advisory but central government spent 9 million quid on sending leaflets to the letter boxes of the nation and in the leaflet it says this is your decision and the government will implement what you decide. On that basis why would anyone then visit the ballot box thinking this is only advisory and may be ignored? If Iíd have thought that Iíd never have bothered.

When on the night of the referendum remain looked home and hosed (remain traded at 1/14 with the bookies ) I donít recall the word advisory being thrown around much. In fact prominent remainers like the late Paddy Ashdwon famously came on the airwaves to tell us he would forgive no person that did not honour the result of the referendum. Until he lost that is.

Parliament voted to have the referendum. Parliament voted to trigger article 50. If you might not like the answer itís probably better not to ask the question.
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Greenandblack Posted on 08/10/2019 17:49

Merkel rings Boris
SmallTown,

I don't think a referendum and a Saturday night out are analagous, so not really worth discussing that.

The National Lottery, the National Savings (Premium Bonds), the football pools, the Health Lottery and other UK organisations are all binding in honour only. So if you win the pools, the company is not bound to pay you. Realistically they will though, because if they didn't, the bond of trust is lost. It's the same with a referendum - just saying it isn't binding isn't going to allow the government to ignore it, or reverse the decision.
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bear66 Posted on 08/10/2019 17:50

Merkel rings Boris
Leaver MPs failed to vote to leave when given the opportunity, including the PM on two occasions.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/10/2019 17:53

Merkel rings Boris
'Meanwhile the gravy train keeps rolling on. All aboard. Choo choo!'

Said the Tory voter.
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Theodore_Bear Posted on 08/10/2019 18:16

Merkel rings Boris
OK this may seem like a subtle point but it is important.

Some simplification here but here goes - Under the British constitution to the extent that referenda can be binding at all they are binding on THE GOVERNMENT not on PARLIAMENT. See threads from post the supreme court case where the difference between these 2 parts of our system was explained.

In our system PARLIAMENT is sovereign so in passing legislation that seeks to prevent a "no deal" "no idea" no version of Brexit PARLIAMENT has done nothing wrong.

Post referendum but pre 2017 election there was a conservative majority government.

Mrs May took a gamble on trying to increase that majority with an election that took place on 8 June 2017.

The gamble failed and resulted in a hung parliament. Mrs May formed a minority government with the support of the DUP.

SO after 8 June 2017 you had a new parliament and - arguably - a new but weaker government. Neither of which are technically bound by the brexit referendum result.
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Lefty Posted on 08/10/2019 18:42

Merkel rings Boris
Theodore is correct.

This point was made in 1975 that the Govt binding itself to a glorified opinion poll did not supersede parliamentary sovereignty because parliament was not bound by it.
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HolgateCorner Posted on 08/10/2019 19:18

Merkel rings Boris
Putting the technical argument to one side I donít think anybody can deny the intention of the referendum was to decide whether or not the UK remained in the EU.

Cameron and his advisors were criminally negligent though.

The Ireland issue is incompatible with leaving the EU and he should have faced up to that. Farage has never been adequately challenged on the Irish border problem and the Tories should have met him head on.

It has become a mess which could lead to the break up of the UK which hard Brexiters may say is an acceptable price to pay but their track record would suggest to me that their opinions lead to nothing but trouble.
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Small_town Posted on 08/10/2019 20:03

Merkel rings Boris
greenandblack your analogy also doesn't work.

I believe at the time they could have made the referendum legally binding, they chose not to. That should have been the first hint.

The fact brexit has got as so entrenched on "sides" means you're even prepared to argue what the word advisory means. I mean, come on
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Funky_Chicken Posted on 08/10/2019 22:14

Merkel rings Boris
Goldie locks days are numbered i reckon [smi]



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gizasqueezemister Posted on 08/10/2019 23:54

Merkel rings Boris
small town, you may be correct in that it was advisory and not legally binding but it was politically binding. And thats important if you ever want to see a meaningful turnout at future refs/elections. It was not just an opinion poll as your responses imply.
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Small_town Posted on 09/10/2019 08:20

Merkel rings Boris
It kind of was though. That's what advisory means. That's probably why the vote to reform the voting system had such a terrible turn out. As I have already stated we could have made it mandatory but were didn't. Advisory means advisory. You can and probably will argue against that all you want but it is an actual fact.
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bear66 Posted on 09/10/2019 08:38

Merkel rings Boris
"it was politically binding"

If it was politically binding, there is no great majority of people to leave the EU and we should therefore remain.
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truthBomb Posted on 09/10/2019 13:05

Merkel rings Boris
"See threads from post the supreme court case where the difference between these 2 parts of our system was explained."


Link: supreme court
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truthBomb Posted on 09/10/2019 13:06

Merkel rings Boris
....

Link: explained
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truthBomb Posted on 09/10/2019 13:08

Merkel rings Boris
....

Link: insert the smiles shown by simply clicking imagery
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 09/10/2019 13:15

Merkel rings Boris
íIf it was politically binding, there is no great majority of people to leave the EU and we should therefore remain.í

Bear you may wish to pretend June 2016 didnít happen but MPs havenít got that luxury. There is a matter of trust at play here and you donít need me to spell out why.
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1finny Posted on 09/10/2019 13:23

Merkel rings Boris
Confused
What was Ďpolitically bindingí
Presumably you are referring to the leaflet we all got saying the referendum would be implemented.

If thatís the case the result of the referendum was to leave - get that

The leadership issue is then - how to leave Ďreally wellí. Thatís the bit that is missing here.

Iíd be concerned that we do anything that is wrong, bad, stupid (delete as applicable) just because it was politically binding.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 09/10/2019 16:15

Merkel rings Boris
Youíre correct, the how to leave bit is missing. The idea was a united UK was supposed to get behind the decision to leave, which didnít happen. Giving the EU zero incentive to cooperate to find an amicable WA. The remain master plan is working a treat !
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bear66 Posted on 09/10/2019 16:23

Merkel rings Boris
Shouldn't have signed an International Treaty in 1998 if we thought we might one day want to leave the EU. Mind you, the DUP were the only party in NI opposed to the agreement.
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Lefty Posted on 09/10/2019 16:45

Merkel rings Boris
Leaving without a deal is absolute proof there wasn't a plan how to leave.

So those who say everyone knew what they were voting for are saying they voted for no plan.

I don't know why they get upset at being called stupid. We all are sometimes, it's not admitting it that's worse.

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Aqualung Posted on 09/10/2019 16:46

Merkel rings Boris
UKLL

Another nitwit with assertions and accusations and he can't back a single frikkin one of them up

Embarrassing
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