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clive_road_stamper Posted on 24/09/2019 00:08
McDonnells vision
 
August, 2023. You had hoped to be on holiday, but youíre still waiting for your regional Workersí Leisure Committee to allocate you some days.

Still, at least you have a three-day weekend coming up. Of course, every weekend is three days long now, which took a bit of getting used to but seems to have worked.

One of the benefits of mass unemployment and a shrinking economy is that thereís no real demand for workers, so all those who said a four-day week wouldnít work have been proved wrong.

What to do with your expanded leisure time? Well, your family is in the local Workersí Leisure and Culture ballot so you might get some tickets for the Peopleís Theatre or, if youíre really lucky, a trip on the Peopleís Railway. Then again, these treats always seem to go to Party officials, and youíre out of favour with the Party, having declined to join the new Financial Services Workers UnionÖ


OK, enough. Letís bring to a close this dystopian scene before it can be accused of sounding too far-fetched. This column may have indulged in a caricature of Labour party policy, but its narrative elements all appeared in John McDonnellís speech to the party faithful yesterday.

The four-day week was at the centre of a pitch that also promised to provide workers with ďaccess to culture and leisureĒ as part of a new commitment to ďuniversal basic servicesĒ. Pledges to restore ďfull trade union powerĒ and rollout sectoral pay bargaining were flung into the crowd like candy.

Self-management by workers, guaranteed jobs and rates of pay, a cap on rents Ė it was all on offer. Taken together with the abolition of private education and the tsunami of tax rises needed to pay for all this.

Labourís policy platform now constitutes the biggest expansion of the state (and commensurate erosion of freedom) in living memory. These are the issues and ideas with which the opposition will attempt to define the next General Election and they will have to be addressed by the Tory party.

Jeremy Corbynís chances of electoral victory are slim, but support for his policies remains high. People donít like him, but they do like the idea of a shorter working week, nationalised utilities and free home-care for their parents.

The Tories can probably keep Corbyn out of Downing Street but Labourís brand of economic populism will pose a challenge for years to come.
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superstu Posted on 24/09/2019 00:35

McDonnells vision
Hope that's a copy and paste from somewhere. If you've actually sat and typed up that load of sh*t I feel awful for you. Must be a very desperate and miserable life you lead. Hopefully Adi sees this thread, he may organise a whip round for you. [^]
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clive_road_stamper Posted on 24/09/2019 00:41
Edited On: 24/09/2019 00:49
McDonnells vision
Of course its a cut and paste. Im not either eloquent , incisive or clever enough to write such a piece. I left it to those that can.

Makes some good points don't you think.
You know John (2 houses 3 boats) McDonnell spreading the wealth.

McDonnell is scarier than Corbyn. And thats scary enough. If hes prepared to say all that stuff in public heaven knows what agenda they have in private.
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WoodallServices Posted on 24/09/2019 01:04

McDonnells vision
All the extra leisure time???
Itís 8 hours a week you stupid cnut. Yeah letís stick with the Tory ideology of everyone on zero hour contracts and sh1t money while useless cnuts can drive a hundred and fifty year old company in to the ground and walk away with the best part of fifty million quid between them.
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br14 Posted on 24/09/2019 01:05

McDonnells vision
"Labourís policy platform now constitutes the biggest expansion of the state (and commensurate erosion of freedom) in living memory."

Not even close. Quote (admittedly from Wikipedia).

"The Bank of England and civil aviation were nationalised in 1946. Coal mining, the railways, road haulage, canals and Cable and Wireless were nationalised in 1947, and electricity and gas followed in 1948. The steel industry was nationalised in 1951. By 1951 about 20 per cent of the British economy had been taken into public ownership"

Surely that has to be the largest expansion of the state - and my Dad would remember it - so it's within living memory.

Amazing what Mr Attlee did in just a few years. And I believe he wasn't against using prorogation when it served his purposes.

Mind you at one point in his term public sector borrowing rose to 240% of GDP. And rationing lasted right through his government and was only removed once Churchill had been back in power for three years - some nine years after the war ended.

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asredastheycome Posted on 24/09/2019 01:48

McDonnells vision
clive_road_stamper it would nice to have something back instead of the take take take we have been getting from the Blue Meanies.
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jonny_greenings_sock Posted on 24/09/2019 02:52

McDonnells vision
Hey, if you don't want to work less hours, earn more money, have a stake in the company you work for and have the board of directors directly answerable to the staff rather than the shareholders that's fine, you don't have to vote for him.

I can't see how any of this is bad news but then I've never liked tugging forelocks at my betters.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 24/09/2019 04:26

McDonnells vision
It was a great speech by McDonnell and it seemed to go down well with lots of people. He knows the capitalist system as it stands isn't sustainable moving forward, so new ideas need to be brought to the fore. The frightening thing for opponents of Labour is that McDonnell is speaking plenty of sense and people will get behind it.

A 32 hour week as a norm which isn't restricted to that should be more than achievable. Advancements in technology should mean a reduction in working hours until it hits a sweet spot where there is a good balance. The simple fact is that companies are profiting from the technological age disproportionately to that of workers. In the likes of Germany, Holland and Scandinavia they work less hours and their productivity is better than it is in the UK economy. It's fairly basic stuff in truth, but it does tend to be the simple things that are the most instrumental and effective. You'll here all the scare stories from the elite and establishment about what will happen. They are simply frightened that people might get the chance to think if they have a bit more time to live their lives. Their main objective is to keep the masses on a leash and under the spell of a particular narrative that is detrimental to the lives of most people.
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nilnilbastardo Posted on 24/09/2019 05:43
Edited On: 24/09/2019 05:45
McDonnells vision
A four-day week would be the biggest boon to mental health ever. Most people loaf about for at least half of Fridays in any case.

The idea, promulgated by the likes of Jeremy Hunt, who said we should all work like the Chinese (forgetting his own wife's nationality into the bargain) could only ever come from a privileged Charterhouse-educated toff like him, who never had to do a XXXXXX job. Most people can tolerate their employment at best - some, like me, actively hate it, but feel they have no choice but to keep putting food on the table. What a life, spending half of it wishing it would be over quickly.

Work, the curse of the drinking classes.
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festa5 Posted on 24/09/2019 06:29

McDonnells vision
I already work a 32 hour week. Obviously I have to take a pay cut to do so and I can't say it's particularly restful as my day off is spent looking after 2 little sleep deprivers.

However I would say I'm pretty much as productive as when I worked full time. I suppose the cynics and Hunts and Raabs of this world would just say I wasn't working hard enough in the first place.
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Ticker_Tape Posted on 24/09/2019 06:36

McDonnells vision
Time spent with your sleep deprivers is worth more than a day's pay, to them and you.

That's the way to go Festa.[^]
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 07:15

McDonnells vision
If this Labour lot got in there wont be any jobs- mass unemployment will be the way ahead.

Some of the ideas they come up with at conference are catchy for sure, but in reality big businesses wont come here so wont employ here.

Existing businesses will look to outsource or move operations overseas and/or develop even further robotics and AI.

Small business owners, both existing and potential will think what is the point of investing and trying to grow a company (and employing people) when the government effectively runs the whole thing anyway.

I am not against some of labours ideas eg re-nationalisation of certain services, but some of the stuff sounds like a move towards overkill and state control and would stifle growth
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1finny Posted on 24/09/2019 07:23

McDonnells vision
None of it matters
You need power and a majority to deliver change.

That ainít happening any time soon then JC and McDonnell will be gone
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fridgeman Posted on 24/09/2019 07:23

McDonnells vision
Working 4 days each week will inevitably lead to job sharing as business trades both nationally and internationally it won't be able to just shut up shop, so in reality if the business is successful it will just carry on as normal but with more staff. However if more people are working and some of them being the back up workers working that extra day they will need financial support on a large scale not to mention that they may do a better job than you at your job, If your old or unproductive it might be exploited by some businesses.
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American_Mary Posted on 24/09/2019 07:46

McDonnells vision
Yeah there is no external investment by big businesses in countries like Denmark where they work a 35 hour week as the norm....none so blind as those that wonít open their eyes to reality that is out there.
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Anton_Berg Posted on 24/09/2019 07:58

McDonnells vision
I like the idea of free carers for over 65s. 'Swing the lead' convincingly and get the household chores done for you.



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superstu Posted on 24/09/2019 08:02

McDonnells vision
"Of course its a cut and paste. Im not either eloquent , incisive or clever enough to write such a piece. I left it to those that can.

Makes some good points don't you think."

Really?

You actually think you won't be allowed to book time off work if there's a Labour government because of a leisure committee?

You actually think only Labour party officials will be able to go to the theatre or use train travel?

I don't really see that it makes any points whatsoever.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/09/2019 08:14

McDonnells vision
The country needs dragging out of a pit. 50 hour weeks with millions unemployed is one of the reasons we're there.
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jonny_greenings_sock Posted on 24/09/2019 08:22
Edited On: 24/09/2019 08:27
McDonnells vision
"Some of the ideas they come up with at conference are catchy for sure, but in reality big businesses wont come here so wont employ here.

Existing businesses will look to outsource or move operations overseas and/or develop even further robotics and AI"

Curious, why do you think that?

I can't see some extra state rules on workers rights and representation causing a flight of corporations and medium-sized businesses, at all.

Regardless of which political party is in power in the UK I think we'll be good at what we've always been good at - services, creativity, finance - and global businesses will continue to pay top dollar for that. Anything they could replace with automation or outsourcing for cheaper, they would probably be doing that anyway.

I think losing access to the EU single market would be a waaay bigger fear factor for multinationals, but that's a whole different argument.

All of Labour's policies from yesterday are designed to quickly improve the quality of your life. But again, if you don't believe in that, you don't have to vote for it.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/09/2019 08:25

McDonnells vision
What nonsense. Of course big business will come here. It's why they now go to countries working far less hours than us on far better wages.
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Anton_Berg Posted on 24/09/2019 08:27

McDonnells vision
If jobs continue to be created mostly in the SE, and you have a shorter working week, the demand will attract yet more migrant workers. Then you'll need another million homes, more hospitals etc. And so it goes on.
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 08:27

McDonnells vision
Denmark is not really a fair comparison AM.

It has a population of less than 10% of ours and a GDP at a fraction.

Why didn't you choose say France which is comparable in size and has comparable labour rules with Denmark and those proposed by Labour. The same rules that Macron is trying to curb and cut back to increase efficiencies, productivity and get his country on to a sounder financial footing.

I personally know someone that runs a multi country business who has stated that he wouldn't set anything up in France due to their Labour laws.

Sadly I live in the real world not the Workers Utopia that the likes of Corbyn and his cohorts exist in!
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1finny Posted on 24/09/2019 08:30

McDonnells vision
The french are more productive that we are [?]
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r00fie1 Posted on 24/09/2019 08:32

McDonnells vision
"multi-country business" - Long distance lorry driver[cr]
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jam69 Posted on 24/09/2019 08:39

McDonnells vision
yeah instead of reducing working hours like the rest of the progressive world let's increase and work until we are 75 or dead.
that's the tory plan.
that's the problem with trying to improve the lives of the 99% , the 1% who will be slightly worse iff will find ways of convincing the sheep it's a bad thing.
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superstu Posted on 24/09/2019 08:44

McDonnells vision
Anyone who's genuinely worried about the 32 hour week policy... would you vote for a party promising to make you work a 50 or 60 hour week instead? Would you want to drop Saturdays and have a 6 day week, 1 day weekend?
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 09:07

McDonnells vision
I would rather work a 40 hour week than be unemployed!

Of course working a 32 hour week, or even less would be great as would living in the land of milk and honey where the Labour left come along and plant magic money trees in all our gardens- all paid for by those nasty rich people and business owners!

As a small business owner, who employs people and pays them well above the average wage, I am concerned at some of the stuff coming out of this Labour party.

Of late we have had the following
-10 days free holiday to anyone who suffers domestic violence (so if any of my staff sadly suffer I have to suffer too?)
-paid leave for women in their menopause
-employees to get 10% of the shares of private companies- even though it is not their capital at risk?

I am lucky enough to be at an age where I could pack up if I wanted too and if I did the people that work for me would be out of work and looking for replacement jobs. I know I wouldn't be alone in this as a medium sized business owner.
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Muttley Posted on 24/09/2019 09:09

McDonnells vision
The usual conflation of Socialism and Communism and the stupids suck it up.
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r00fie1 Posted on 24/09/2019 09:12

McDonnells vision
The self made man bleats whilst millions have unstable jobs - cant get mortgages and millions live in sub-standard accommodation and Boris doles out 126,000..

Ever thought that the Labour policy might include subsidising small businesses to comply with those benefits to workers.

Everytime a step forward is proposed, up pops the local newsagents and double glazer crying about progress.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/09/2019 09:16
Edited On: 24/09/2019 09:17
McDonnells vision
Hear, hear. The demise was kicked off by a shopkeeper's daughter and 40 years along the downward spiral continues.

We need to progress and we need the type of government which put us in the right track post war.
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r00fie1 Posted on 24/09/2019 09:18

McDonnells vision
She was only a shoppe keepers daughter...
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WoodallServices Posted on 24/09/2019 09:34

McDonnells vision
ďExisting businesses will look to outsource or move operations overseas and/or develop even further robotics and AI.Ē

Theyíll do that anyway, how naive you are.
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jonny_greenings_sock Posted on 24/09/2019 10:03

McDonnells vision
I'm honestly not having a go at you here mate, but it's an interesting discussion - apologies if I come across snide, I'm genuinely curious. I don't have any experience running a business of your size and your points are really interesting, but from an employee's point of view I totally disagree:

"Of course working a 32 hour week, or even less would be great as would living in the land of milk and honey where the Labour left come along and plant magic money trees in all our gardens- all paid for by those nasty rich people and business owners!"
- I work a 25-30ish hour week, it's great. My boss is well happy and so am I. If I've got nothing to do and I'm not being productive I just go home - incentivises me to work smarter and harder and hit deadlines quicker. It's not an impossible land of milk and honey unicorn dream, it's how forward-thinking, flexible companies are working right now (depending on the type of job, obviously - it's not gonna work for paramedics or shopkeepers).

"Of late we have had the following
-10 days free holiday to anyone who suffers domestic violence (so if any of my staff sadly suffer I have to suffer too?)"
- Yes you do, because you have a social responsibility to your staff. And if you don't see that you have a duty like that to them and think their welfare outside of work is a financial burden for you, I'd hazard that you're not a very good employer to work for.

"-employees to get 10% of the shares of private companies- even though it is not their capital at risk?"
- It's not their capital true, but they do all the work. So they deserve not only a say but also an incentive to work harder and smarter, surely?

"As a small business owner, who employs people and pays them well above the average wage"
- Good on you for that, genuinely. I guess you pay above average to keep quality staff and corporate knowledge? Does happier staff = better staff retention and productivity? If so, would you not want to incentivise them further with exactly the kind of things McDonnell is proposing? If all the good staff left to join a rival company because they got 10% equity, what would it do to your business?
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Muttley Posted on 24/09/2019 10:06

McDonnells vision
With the advent of advanced robotics and AI we are, many believe, on the cusp of a major societal change. It's one of the reasons the rich are looking to entrench their wealth and privilege. It might be that, in ten or twenty years time, things like construction and manufacturing will be the sole purview of robots requiring a level of tech support but little manual work? We need to look to establish a real living wage and greater leisure and creative opportunities for everyone. We need to abandon the goal of continual economic growth and look to provide a rich and fulfilling life for the whole population of this planet.

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UKLL1981 Posted on 24/09/2019 11:07
Edited On: 24/09/2019 11:23
McDonnells vision
Anyone with more than £2 to their name or skills in demand around the world will be off if this clown is ever put in charge of the economy. Everyone else can sit around eating their turnip soup celebrating the fact they now all own a railway sleeper each. He will be a disaster for this country, I truly believe that, plenty of aircraft engineering work around the world so Iíll be ok whatever happens but nothing will convince me that Labours current economic policies will be nothing but a disaster for the UK. Everything about their policies is anti work ethic, anti aspiration, anti endeavour and designed to divisive.
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 11:18

McDonnells vision
Jonny G, i don't have time to get into a detailed discussion as I am quite busy, but to answer oen of your questions.

I have 4 members of staff, 3 of which do admin roles and are not business getters/revenue generators. They have been with me for 18,18 and 10 years. I offer flexible working hours and good pay 9i pay them much higher than average because they are good and it would be a pain for me to replace them).

If my business takes a turn for the worst, they will still get paid first. It would be me that suffers as the profits- distributable to me, would drop.

The staff haven't invested anything into the business and unlike me I don't expect them to work weekends, while they are on holiday etc whereas I do if a client requires it of me.

I operate in a highly regulated business environment and that is fine. But dealing with constant rule changes and dictats is quite frankly frustrating and often totally unproductive and regularly short sighted.

The prospect of more and more rules and changes, higher taxes and frankly resentment for anyone that has aspirations for himself and his family from the current Labour mob and supporters is real. I could carry on or I may just decide to retire early- if I do that 4 people will be looking for new work and the tax I collect and pay to HMRC will be gone.

If many other smaller/medium sized firms feel the same way then the future for the workers is not so good.

I don't expect many on here to agree or even understand, because it is full of die hard Labour supporters who have an unhealthy hatred for anyone that doesn't agree with them.
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redwurzel Posted on 24/09/2019 11:35

McDonnells vision
Why can't JM be realistic e.g.

Above inflation rise in Min Wage and Living Wage

Reform of Zero contracts to limit them more

Rise is welfare benefits with inflation every year.

Ensure people are not worse off when they go on universal credit and that they receive some payments within 2 weeks of applying.

More money for state schools to bring money per pupil in line with what it was in 2015.

More money for NHS to Scottish levels

More money for social care in E and W to level in Scotland

Stop cutting disabled benefits

Large increase in regional spending away from the big cities to support the left behind areas of the country to rebalance the UK economy, for the better of the whole country.

Coming up with his dream policies is not helping to get new floating voters.
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zaphod Posted on 24/09/2019 11:45

McDonnells vision
I'm very dubious about the supposed jobs losses down to AI, having worked through the era of mass computerisation, which was supposed to reduce the workforce and paperwork. There is less unemployment now than there was beforehand in the late 1980s and there's, if anything, more paperwork. It's just that the jobs have changed.
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American_Mary Posted on 24/09/2019 11:51
Edited On: 24/09/2019 12:08
McDonnells vision
Gazzastrip,

I'm currently working France, third time in the country, the French people I work with have always worked 40 hours a week, same as UK.

I previously worked in Denmark where all the Danes were working around the 35 hour a week mark which is closer to the Labour proposals.

So with respect, I feel its a very fair comparison form someone who has experience of working in both countries.

The staff haven't invested anything into the business apart from years of their expertise and you have profited from their labour, its how business works.

I'm sure there are people on here who have been equally successful if not more so in their chosen career or business and totally understand the potential benefit of some of these proposals, it comes across as you feel as though you're the only person with aspirations, others like myself, believe that our aspirations can be matched with the hope of better work life balance for the majority.
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jonny_greenings_sock Posted on 24/09/2019 12:03

McDonnells vision
gazzastrip2 [^] Nice one and thanks for the response.
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 13:43

McDonnells vision
American Mary, you know nothing about my business or my staff, so please don't tell me how much they have invested etc etc.

The staff want (so they tell me) to be well paid, have reasonable flexibility in their roles and hours and enjoy their work. The fact they have been here for so long and in an area of low unemployment I don't live in the North East) suggests they are pretty happy.

They arrive at 9, get one hour for lunch and leave at 5 or before everyday. I could replace them (with some hassle I accept) and save around £30k-£40k PA in wages and other costs if I chose to do so- that is how much they are paid over the average for what they do!

To say they deserve a share in the business is quite frankly ridiculous, but is in line with your obvious socialist principals it would seem.

As for the French stuff- well done you for living and working there. My business buddy tells me he would never set up there due to their employment laws and he cites that once someone has worked for long enough it is almost impossible for the company to get rid of them- regardless of their performance or the financial position of the company?
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redwurzel Posted on 24/09/2019 15:25

McDonnells vision
I believe JM was talking about working 30 hours a week for the same pay as say 39 hours now which is an example of what I said about scaring floating voters away.

The Labour Party need to be left of centre, but if they go well left they will limit themselves in voting appeal to only 40% of the population. They have to be socialists and social democrats if they want real power.
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gazzastrip2 Posted on 24/09/2019 15:35

McDonnells vision
Agreed Red Wurzel.

Left of centre and they would walk an election in my opinion. That means getting rid of Corbyn and his chosen successor (the radio was talking about Corbyn and Mcluskey making succession plans at the conference yesterday).

There are a lot of centrist Labour MPs who cant wait for JC and JM to go. That way they can get back to the fertile ground (centre) and actually get into power.

Like him or loathe him but Blair would easily win an election right now, as would any credible Labour leader to be honest!

Sadly, with the exception of Starmer, Corbyn has surrounded himself with a bunch of lightweights on the opposition front bench just because they say they agree with him.

An example is our own Andy Mcdonald. Nice enough guy but he is pretty thick (or comes across that way) and is becoming a bit of a moaner and whiner and Mr negative. Not the way to win an election in my opinion!
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boromike85 Posted on 24/09/2019 15:59
Edited On: 24/09/2019 15:59
McDonnells vision
What is the point of a centrist winning if they are only going to enact centrist policies? If 40% of people want socialist policies then that is a significant amount of people who will never get policies that they want. If you only have centre and right wing governments then you never get socialist policies.

It's not just about winning. It's what you do when you've won that's most important.
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Trug Posted on 24/09/2019 16:04

McDonnells vision
If this Labour lot got in there wont be any jobs- mass unemployment will be the way ahead.
Well, Gaza strip- your memory seems to be very selective seeing as mass unemployment has happened under the Tories- remember 3 million out of work- (relly nearer to 6 million but figures were massaged very well under Thatcher). And under this government, you are counted as being in employment if you only work one hour per week. The Tories are the party of mass unemployment- it is their way of controlling people. vote Tory- lose your job.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/09/2019 16:11

McDonnells vision
So true, so why can't the same old people see it. Denying history, perhaps the propaganda of press played a major role.
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American_Mary Posted on 24/09/2019 16:55

McDonnells vision
Gazzastrip, can you point out where I said that your employees should have a share in your business and Iím miles away from being a Socialist, Social Democrat perhaps.

The reality is that French labour regulations are more stringent than the UKís but if someone isnít performing you can get rid of them, job Iím currently on has seen two people dismissed for failure to perform adequately.

French growth is outstripping U.K. growth and their economy is forecast to overtake ours in the next 5 years, many multinationals are expanding in France, that would seem to contradict your point on more legislation being restrictive to growth, wouldnít it ?
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asredastheycome Posted on 25/09/2019 01:11

McDonnells vision
" I like the idea of free carers for over 65s. 'Swing the lead' convincingly and get the household chores done for you."

Anton there will always be people who abuse the system...Ö...just look at Boris never played by a rule in his life.
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asredastheycome Posted on 25/09/2019 01:13
Edited On: 25/09/2019 01:23
McDonnells vision
"I personally know someone that runs a multi country business who has stated that he wouldn't set anything up in France due to their Labour laws. "


gazza is he a greedy Tory fVcker [;)]
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r00fie1 Posted on 25/09/2019 05:44

McDonnells vision
Tony Blair and Gordon Brown - those Labour leaders lost the last elections for Government, not Jeremy Corbyn.

The public didnt want Tory - light "centrism" - with soldiers being sent to their deaths on a pack of lies, the closure of sure-start centres,freezing of pay for poorly paid nhs workers, austerity, cuts in the living standards of the many for the few,......
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Markburke Posted on 25/09/2019 08:22

McDonnells vision
I know John very well, he used to be my MP and I had a lot to do with him. I can tell you firsthand that he is the most genuine, kind hearted and far-sighted man you could meet. He cares greatly about people and he walks the walk. No one locally has a bad word to say about him, even the most ardent Tories in the area. He has spent his life trying to bring peace, hope and fairness. One comparison to the current PM: the local council were going to tear down a historic house in the local park which the council has let decline (to build on the green belt in the local working class area). John slept out in front of the bulldozers and now itís a thriving centre for local people and the park has a green flag. Boris, the MP for the next constituency along, promised to lie in front of the bulldozers against Heathrow expansion. But when there was a vote on the issue he mysteriously had to go off on a foreign office visit somewhere... As someone who knows John but wasnít necessarily in his school of politics I canít help but feel that the country would be in better hands if he was running it. (Just my opinion and I donít mind if anyone takes a different view, thatís democracy).
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jam69 Posted on 25/09/2019 08:23

McDonnells vision
labour announced a public owned pharmaceutical company to supply medicines to our NHS to stop private companies charging us billions. thus is a great idea that would save the county millions per week, it's a no brainer but the sheep will be herded into thinking it's a bad idea
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Markburke Posted on 25/09/2019 08:34

McDonnells vision
UKLL

Iím a brother to every man Iím the land and respect your viewpoint. Can I ask about your point on rail nationalisation? I live in the north west now and sometimes have to work in London now and the rail company charge me £150-200 for a return trip. They cream off profits and do not reinvest Iím rolling stock or stations. The bodged privatisation means that we are paying for the infrastructure bit (Network Rail) already so why not take on the other bit and adjust fares so people can use trains again and reinvest Iím decent facilities, rolling stock and bring some additional and viable railway lines back into use? Seems like economic common sense to me. In economic terms the market is broken.
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jam69 Posted on 25/09/2019 08:50

McDonnells vision
a good chunk of our railways are already on national ownership, problem is it's the German, Spanish Dutch governments etc that own them, they use the profits to keep their own fares cheap.
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Markburke Posted on 25/09/2019 09:26

McDonnells vision
Exactly Jam [^]

Letís have them back. Itís a spot on policy.
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toxic_bob Posted on 25/09/2019 11:00

McDonnells vision
Business is warming to Labour. They are seen as less of a risk than the lunatics currently in charge.
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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 11:20

McDonnells vision
'most genuine, kind hearted and far-sighted man you could meet'

'cares greatly about people and he walks the walk'

'No one locally has a bad word to say about him'

Yet kicking the XXXXXX out of things is 'the best of his movement' and IRA should be honoured for their bombings

I think someone's been had[:I]

Link: Marxist Thug
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clive_road_stamper Posted on 25/09/2019 11:24

McDonnells vision
"labour announced a public owned pharmaceutical company to supply medicines to our NHS to stop private companies charging us billions. thus is a great idea that would save the county millions per week, it's a no brainer but the sheep will be herded into thinking it's a bad idea"

great idea. Developing drugs as a piece of cake. Im sure there are loads of cottage industries that could be turned in to a Bayer, AstaZeneca, over night
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Markburke Posted on 25/09/2019 16:48

McDonnells vision
TrickBag
Thank you. Just to reiterate I do know him well and Iím guessing you maybe havenít met him and are relying on what youíve read in newspapers that disagree with his political vision. Those newspapers sometimes donít tell the truth, as Iím sure you know.

Just to say also Iíve had enough experience to be clear of that view and Iím not daft, I worked very closely with top flight politicians of all colours for twenty odd years. John McD is an absolutely superb man and not at all how the papers have painted him.

Re NI, like John Major, Mo Mowlem and countless others he helped bring peace. God bless everyone that contributed to making that happen.


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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 17:29

McDonnells vision
I have met him once but the setting was convivial for him, he was in the company of like-minded souls.

To see and hear him say 'kicking the XXXXXX' out of something was 'the best of the Labour movement' is more revealing. Honours for murderers another and advising people to have a 'Day of Rage' isn't really an assuaging influence, is it?

Sometimes the surface just needs to be scratched to see what lies beneath..

I also understand why his media people now try so hard to have him depicted in a dusky pink lambswool sweater, on a comfy armchair, afront flock wallpaper with a view of his rambling lawns

You need to ask yourself why?
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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 17:35

McDonnells Temper
He also refused to apologise for saying a woman should be lynched in the street.

I wouldn't say those were the words of an 'absolutely superb man' and I'm guessing if he were a Tory, neither would you.
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Markburke Posted on 25/09/2019 18:44

McDonnells Temper
Yes, Iím sure with hindsight he wishes heíd used different words that day. He was upset by seeing so many constituents thrown to the dogs by ATOS at the behest of the DWP Secretary of State. Itís real to him. He lives in it, feels it, heís a real bloke, hen has a heart like a bin lid and he gets annoyed by systemic social injustice. But yes absolutely politicians should use moderate language and Iím sure he would agree with you too [^]
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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 18:53

McDonnell's Temper
Sounds like you're trying to excuse the inexcusable because of some personal affinity or political allegiance.

Are you still a Labour supporter?
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Zoophonic Posted on 25/09/2019 18:54

McDonnell's Temper
"Sounds like you're trying to excuse the inexcusable because of some personal affinity or political allegiance."

Happens a lot on this Board - either side of the political fence.
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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 19:11

McDonnell's Temper
True
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WeeGord Posted on 25/09/2019 19:19

McDonnell's Temper
TrickBag, I know I would far sooner trust John McDonnell than that useless lying oaf Boris Johnson. How do you feel about BJ's gaffes about pillarboxes, picanninnie smiles etc?
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TrickBag Posted on 25/09/2019 19:34

McDonnell's Temper
That's entirely your prerogative.

Personally I would have more sympathy with someone who says a woman looks like a letterbox than one who believes she should be lynched in the street...every time

And piccaninny is an adjective describing an over-excited black child. Just as 'Gammon' is used to describe an over-excited white adult.

Both can be used as terms of abuse but only one can be used as a term of endearment.

Link: Chapter 7
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Markburke Posted on 26/09/2019 00:31

McDonnell's Temper
I believe that he was quoting in a story something that had been said at a meeting heíd attended by people who were furious with what Esther McVey had done in removing disabled peopleís lifeline benefits and employing ATOS to interrogate seriously Ill people. You can listen to it on BBC online. But as Iíve said above fairly clearly I think, itís not terrifically helpful and political words need to be used with real care, especially given what happened to Jo Cox and Stephen Timms.

But honestly, people can vote for whomever they like in my book, thatís democracy. Give me a bloke who stands up for disabled and seriously ill people any day. My own dad has been through that ATOS grilling - a proud incredibly hard working man thatís paid into society all his life shouldnít have had to go through that humiliation.

But peace and love. Letís stop climate change, lets give people support, dignity and skills and let the country prosper.
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bear66 Posted on 03/12/2019 16:20

McDonnells vision
"Developing drugs as a piece of cake. Im sure there are loads of cottage industries that could be turned in to a Bayer, AstaZeneca, over night"

The actual principle and policy:

"The Orkambi cystic fibrosis drug is just
the latest example of patients held
to ransom by corporations charging
extortionate prices for life-saving drugs.
We will establish a generic drug
company. If fair prices are rejected for
patented drugs we will use the Patents
Act provisions, compulsory licences and
research exemptions to secure access
to generic versions, and we will aim to
increase the number of pharmaceutical
jobs in the UK."
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