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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 12:26
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
 
see the details of Operation Yellowhammer, the Government blueprint plans for a “no deal Brexit”. Apparently it would “scare the public” unnecessarily.

So everything will be fine and it's all Project Fear scaremongering, but the document setting out plans to deal with the aftermath is too scary for us to be allowed to see?

Hmmmm.... something doesn't quite add up here. Could the government possibly believe we're all as stupid as Mark Francois?
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boromike85 Posted on 11/09/2019 12:29

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Let's be honest though. If the document was released and there were 3 possibilities of best case, medium case and worst case then what angle would all of the politicians and media run with?
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 12:31

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
That's weak even by your standards Mike!
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Grrreds Posted on 11/09/2019 12:33

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Don't forget Andrea Leadsom's husband and brother in law are named in the Paradise Papers (along with Rees-Mogg, the Barclay Brothers, Aaron Banks et al).

It is all about tax avoidance. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything else is bullXXXXXX.
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boromike85 Posted on 11/09/2019 12:48

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
"That's weak even by your standards Mike!"

I don't agree with it. I'm just saying that I can see why they wouldn't want it publishing.

To be honest. There should be a formal process where things are either classified or not and there should be no disputes, challenges or demands.

It is essentially a working paper to produce a report or a workstream. It is the report or workstream that matters, not the workings behind it otherwise it is easy to misinterpret or deliberately misuse data to frame an argument.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 12:55

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
That's just obfuscation. This is a cross-government civil contingency plan of a government pushing an outcome that they have no mandate for. It was last updated to our knowledge in August and represents the 'most likely scenario'. It is the basis upon which billions of pounds of taxpayers money has been spent. The government pushes no deal on the basis that its preparations in mitigation are sufficient and in fact pushed an election agenda on that basis. The notion that it shouldn't be published for any reason is a crock.
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boromike85 Posted on 11/09/2019 13:20

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
No it's not. They've said that it contains what would happen if no contingencies were made and proposals for those contingencies. They have since made contingencies hence the £2bn of extra spending for no deal. We don't publish every working paper that the government (or the opposition) produce so I don't know why anyone would expect this one to be.

You really can't speculate on what it contains if you haven't seen it. "To our knowledge" proves that you don't have the full facts. A lot changes in a month. Why would they publish something from last month? Maybe they have new data/information and that document is now out of date.
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Zoophonic Posted on 11/09/2019 13:25

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I am driven to distraction every time I see reference to this - they're allowed to get away with saying 'its a worst case scenario' when as I understand it the report covers a range of possibilities, INCLUDING THE MOST LIKELY SITUATION after no deal.

That's not scare mongering or prohject fear - it's their understanding of what IS going to happen, and frankly we should know it!
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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 13:29

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
It's basically The Necronomicon. Anyone who tries to read it will be driven mad, (according to Leadsom.)

Or maybe I have got that backwards, Anyone who reads the report becomes sane and stops believing in the brexit fairy.
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littlejimmy Posted on 11/09/2019 13:33

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I still think this is all a bad dream and I'll wake up soon where the government isn't actively pursuing a policy they know is going to cause massive harm. All they care about is self-preservation.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 13:40

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
There was a mandate to leave on the basis a withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reached. That was the legal imperative until the recent bill that was passed, which has effectively overturned the decision to leave, without the need now for a 2nd ref. Not sure why we are still going through the motions really. Boris was trying to get it done but has been badly advised, JC will ultimately be seen as the man that destroyed brexit. Obviously just less than half the countries voters will be delighted with him for that [^]
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keelo Posted on 11/09/2019 13:43

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
You have to be really, really very stupid if you think everything is gonna be ok after Brexit ...its complete and utter fkn madness, brainwashed and playing into the arms of the very wealthy
Itll be ok they say 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
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keelo Posted on 11/09/2019 13:44

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Boris? Why do people insist on calling him Boris? Is he your fkn mate like?doooh
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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 13:50

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I prefer “The Clown”
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newusername Posted on 11/09/2019 13:58
Edited On: 11/09/2019 14:02
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
The fear of government is it could actually lead to shortages.

Say Yellowhammer says there could be an issue with bread.

People will rush out & buy bread, stripping the shops of bread now. Every time bread is resupplied, it is panic bought again.

By the time of Brexit some people will have a lifetime supply of bread in the freezer and some would have none.

So by not releasing the report but encouraging people to make preparations, means there is no panic buying and there should be enough bread to go round in the sunlit uplands of post-EU Britain.

Link: Just in case though ...
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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 14:36

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
“By the time of Brexit some people will have a lifetime supply of bread in the freezer”

I hope their freezers are big enough.
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free_pint Posted on 11/09/2019 14:40

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
The main reason they won't release all the documents is because there's proof that they illegally prorogued parliament based on falsehoods and dickhead will end up rightfully in jail.
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keelo Posted on 11/09/2019 15:16

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
free_pint please please please let this come to pass....he's a d ickhead of the highest order...as the PM of the UK... unbelievable
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FatCat Posted on 11/09/2019 15:17

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
In this new era of transparency I think this cross party mob should release all their conversations /side agreements they have made with the EU. Surely it’s only fair that all cards are on the table?
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FartingGnome Posted on 11/09/2019 15:18

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
"dickhead will end up rightfully in jail" .....

And will spend his time writing a book that he'll call "My Struggle" .....
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 15:20
Edited On: 11/09/2019 15:26
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Look at the gymnastics you're prepared to perform again Mike. Seriously, at what point do you stop defending the indefensible? The report is a month old, it covers a wide range of possibilities, people might stockpile and so it's not right that it be released because some newspapers might overstate the problems we will face.

Look at where we are: a government has a document that if released you say might cause people to start stockpiling foods and medicines. This is what Brexit has become. Gone is the narrative of sunlit uplands and in its place we have this - it won't be *that* bad.

Do me a favour.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 15:22

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
"There was a mandate to leave on the basis a withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reached. That was the legal imperative until the recent bill that was passed, which has effectively overturned the decision to leave, without the need now for a 2nd ref. Not sure why we are still going through the motions really. Boris was trying to get it done but has been badly advised, JC will ultimately be seen as the man that destroyed brexit. Obviously just less than half the countries voters will be delighted with him for that"

Nope, try again. See the other thread as to why this is nonsense.
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boromike85 Posted on 11/09/2019 15:35

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
"Look at the gymnastics you're prepared to perform again Mike."

As I said above I don't agree with them not releasing it but I don't trust it to not be taken the wrong way if it was.

I did say there should be a formal process where these documents are either available or they aren't otherwise you could have issues with security or maybe when you are in the middle of a negotiating position you don't want to give too much away etc. We either let these people get on with their jobs or we don't.

If there is an expectation that anything could become public knowledge then it would probably reduce transparency in the long run rather than increase it because they would stop writing anything down at all. It sets a dodgy precedent.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 15:48

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Right out of the Dominic Raab playbook that one!

You don't trust this document not to be taken the wrong way? that is such a double standard.
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1finny Posted on 11/09/2019 15:49

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I thought they were now legally obliged to release it [?]
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free_pint Posted on 11/09/2019 15:54

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Worse thing is they were offered to share it with only the privvy council and it would stay amongst them and they rejected even doing that. Many things to hide.
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bear66 Posted on 11/09/2019 15:59

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Apparently its like saying you could possibly be run over by a car. If the worst case is we are all going to possibly die, we should know about it.
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Alan_Breck Posted on 11/09/2019 16:02

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
The problem with getting Brexit done and finished is that it has been managed by committee, a committee of 650 MPs who each have a different view and opinion of what Brexit should be.
It's a farce which no one could have envisaged at referendum stage.

#UTB
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 16:15

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Couldn't disagree more. The problem is that the way in which you describe the 650 MPs applies to the 17.4m that voted to leave. It's the essence and root of where we have got to - putting it up as a binary choice without defining what leave meant was a huge mistake and it was readily identifiable as such at the time. Many people envisaged this very problem. Project Fear.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 16:23

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
You could disagree more and you usually do [rle]
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 16:33

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
About as valuable as your usual contributions that.
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keelo Posted on 11/09/2019 16:44

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
. We either let these people get on with their jobs or we don't.


Let who? This Tory gang of far right extremists.....pack of idiots...Johnson, Gove Raab, Mogg and the ordinary mp isnt allowed to do their jobs...god help us
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FartingGnome Posted on 11/09/2019 16:48

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Pretty near to a description I read of the present cabinet as being composed of Fanatics, Snobs and Half Wits.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 17:01

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
There will soon be an opportunity for everyone to have their say in kicking them out. Not quite as easy though to replace any of the EU's 5 Presidents...wasn't Von Der Leyens selection described as 'un-transparent' [:O]
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FartingGnome Posted on 11/09/2019 17:08

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
People in this country are on thin ice spouting about lack of transparency and democracy in the EU.

Let's start at the top. Where's the democracy or transparency in the crowning of our head of state?

Then we can get on to the representative 0.18% of the population that voted for Johnson as PM.

And maybe we should start talking about a wholly unelected legislative chamber.

But lack of democratic accountability is one of the reasons people want to leave the EU.

Forgive me but I don't believe you.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 17:10

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I think the point is there is an opportunity to get rid of one unnecessary layer of what you describe
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FartingGnome Posted on 11/09/2019 17:13

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I think we should be concentrating on the way it is, not how it might be.
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Trug Posted on 11/09/2019 17:15

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
There is also an unelected head of the Brexit Party
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FartingGnome Posted on 11/09/2019 17:17

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Good point, well made [:D]
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dooderooni Posted on 11/09/2019 18:30

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
This just gets better and better doesn't it.

You've got JRM besmirching the character of one of the experts who contributed to Yellowhammer using Parliamentary Privilege to avoid being sued, now you've got Leadsom telling us we can't see what's in the report.

If you're still backing the Tories then you really must need your head examining.

Any attempt to blame anyone else but the Tories for this entire debacle is pointless.

A Tory called the referendum.
A Tory decided she would deliver Brexit.
The Tories imposed the red lines.
The Tories negotiated the deal.
The Tories ousted the PM and went for a No Deal Brexiteer.
The Tories tried to purge their own party of opposition.
The Tories prorogued Parliament to try and force No Deal.
Now they won't release Yellowhammer.

Anything, Corbyn, Swinson or anyone else has done is as a direct consequence of the above Tory actions. Had the outline plan by Vote Leave that I've reminded people of numerous times this week been followed and Brexit been done as a cross-party exercise then we'd not be facing half of these issues.

Any ire about not deliver Brexit or respecting democracy should be addressed to the Tory party.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 18:40

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
But didn’t a kick in the XXXXXX off 500 MPs vote to trigger article 50? Including a 3 line whip from the labour leadership? Or was it actually Mrs May whipping the labour MPs [?]
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Osboro Posted on 11/09/2019 18:42
Edited On: 11/09/2019 18:44
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
You can't argue with the crazies, they are for brexit and will argue against any fact that threatens that.
Nutters like gizzasqueeze, trotting out the rubbish of the brainwashed.
How many of our senior civil servants were elected? At least the " presidents" ( just a name by the way) are appointed by elected representatives.
The senior Civil servents are usually passed up via the old school tie route, doesn't that bother the brexiteer democrats...
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 18:58
Edited On: 11/09/2019 18:59
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Having just spent time blaming Labour for opposing and obstructing Brexit he’s now blaming them for Article 50 being invoked.

Absolutely no consistency to any of these arguments. Just continuous mental gymnastics to get back to the same ridiculous conclusions.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 19:02

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
No blaming them Adi at all, another twist from you as per. I was just reminding people labour were in the room too when it was triggered.
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gizasqueezemister Posted on 11/09/2019 19:10

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Anyway you lot stop fretting, Article 50 is gonna get pulled. Nailed on cert.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 19:10

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I’m twisting nothing, just pointing out the glaring inconsistencies in what you spout.
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spanishman2 Posted on 11/09/2019 19:59

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Oh yes you will. At least a summary has been released.......
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spanishman2 Posted on 11/09/2019 20:06
Edited On: 11/09/2019 20:09
Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
What is point 15 that I think has been redacted? Sky news just mentioned redacted for commercial reasons.
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dooderooni Posted on 11/09/2019 20:12

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Link

Link: Poor hit hardest
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 20:18

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
It will just be dismissed. Normalised. Explained away. It’s fanaticism.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 20:36

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I’ve only just realised. Anyone else notice? This is the exact same document as that which was leaked to the Times with one notable difference: the heading. It’s been changed from ‘Base Scenario’ to ‘Reasonable Worst Case Planning Assumptions’. They must think people are really stupid.
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Fuchs_ache Posted on 11/09/2019 20:38

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Yeah well some people really are a sucker for a story. [:D]
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dooderooni Posted on 11/09/2019 20:44

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I think they rely more on apathy and fatigue as much as stupidity Adi.

Some people will be fooled, some won't care and some will simply be bored by it. The problem is that once it all pans out and captures the attention it's all too late.

I wouldn't trust this government to tell me the weather if we were all stood outside No 10.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 20:48

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
I think you’re right dood. It’s a heady mix of people absolutely refusing to believe it out of entrenched fanaticism, genuine stupidity or just not caring any more.

A sad state of affairs.
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Way_Out_West Posted on 11/09/2019 21:39

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.
This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).
Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 21:50

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
The simple solution Irish border myth destroyed too.
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dooderooni Posted on 11/09/2019 22:00

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
That paragraph about the potential Irish problems is certainly telling.
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Adi_Dem Posted on 11/09/2019 22:10

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
This document is the tip of the iceberg too. They haven’t released anything like all of it: what about the risk of increased death rate analysis for example?

At what point do rabid Brexiteers stop, take stock and compare what they were being told in 2016 to the reality in front of their face in 2019?
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borobuddah Posted on 12/09/2019 09:17

Andrea Leadsom - No You Will Not
Of course, Boromike was right
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