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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 09:55
Edited On: 10/09/2019 09:57I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test
 
 
2-2 draw would be a good end to a good series. They do deserve to take the urn home, if only for Smith's outstanding performance (which I neither boo nor applaud), but lets be honest its just a little wooden urn. The Test Championship is (or should be) viewed as more important. A draw would also keep Stokes's heroics at Headingley as more significant.

They haven't won here since 2001, lets keep it that way. When they next come in 2023, it will be 22 years since they've won a series here.

Either way, its been a truly memorable summer of cricket. The scene is set for the controversial Hundred next year.
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1finny Posted on 10/09/2019 09:59
Edited On: 10/09/2019 10:00
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
They have been more superior all over the pitch and, to be fair, ought to be 3 up.
That would not have flattered them either.

Smith is an absolute wonder of a player and I’m happy to applaud him - I’m softer than you ...

Looking forward to the game but less so given the ashes are lost.
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 10:16

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Their bowling has been slightly better, but not by much, and their batting is simply the difference between Smith and the rest.

Most of their other batsmen have been abysmal apart from Marnus, Stokes has had a good series with the bat even if no one else has.

We have missed Jimmy, no question.

I'm not saying 2-2 would be a 'fair result' but it would be great to sneak a draw.

Watch 'Crossing the Line' finny if you need reminding what a smug little prick Smith really is. Outstanding player no question, but about as likeable as Luis Suarez. Oh and absolutely no doubt in my mind the cheating was not a one off and had been going on for months on his watch, including the winter Ashes where their bowlers managed to achieve swing when one of the greatest swing bowlers of all-time couldn't.

Smith is a great player but a stain on cricket. He served his ban and his contribution has helped them retain the Ashes fair and square but I make no apology for disliking the cheating little weasel.
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Calculus Posted on 10/09/2019 10:26
Edited On: 10/09/2019 10:27
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
"Their bowling has been slightly better, but not by much"

Cummins is a world apart from our bowlers right now.

Their rotation and depth of bowlers has been very impressive throughout the series. At times our bowlers have understandably looked shattered.

Must be a nice luxury to pick and choose when to play Starc, Hazlewood etc.
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keelo Posted on 10/09/2019 10:29

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Overall I'd say Smith was the major difference in them retaining the ashes, without a doubt
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 10:33

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
That's a fair point actually Calculus, but I still think Broad and Archer have had good series. We have been massively weakened without Jimmy, obviously. I can't really understand why Woakes was dropped.

They do have a good versatile pace attack but you could also say it was their bowling that let them down slightly in the Lords and Headingley tests, when it mattered most.

There is still one test to go though so some opinions could be revised.
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Calculus Posted on 10/09/2019 10:40
Edited On: 10/09/2019 10:41
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Fully agree about Broad and Archer, not a criticism of them, Cummins is just rightly rated as probably the best bowler in the world right now world right now.

Broad and Archer have been as good as any other Aussie bowler but overused at times.

You lose to a better team / players in form at times. Not the end of the world.
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bear66 Posted on 10/09/2019 10:41

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
I presumed Woakes was injured. I'm surprised as well.
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coluka Posted on 10/09/2019 11:27

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Personally I think they are stronger in their batting line up, more consistent and the bowlers have performed better too. Warner and Khwaja have been disappointing but to be fair have fielded very well.

They deserve the victory and Smith, whatever you think about him as a person, is a machine. (I could cheerfully smack him for his ‘batting style’ though).

He deserves to be man of the series for me
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 11:41
Edited On: 10/09/2019 11:45
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Smith aside, I wouldn't agree about that Col. Their batting lineup is abysmal. Labuschagne has dug in when he's needed to but that's offset by Stokes' couple of centuries.

Wade made a ton but has struggled to get into double figures the rest of the time. Head, Warner, Bancroft, Paine, Khawaja and Harris have all been absolutely turd.
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jam69 Posted on 10/09/2019 11:44

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
first things first a cracking finish in the county championship has resumed today, essex and somerset seperated by 2 points and yorkshire still in the hunt. live online for those interested
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 11:46

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Here in historical Lancashire we're about to romp to yet another title Jam. [^]
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Cuthbert Posted on 10/09/2019 11:56
Edited On: 10/09/2019 13:14
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
I think Smith and Labuschagne have been the only real difference between the two teams.

I'm NOT looking forward to the 5th Test as much as I would have been if it was still all to play for. I have a ticket for next Saturday though, so will hopefully still enjoy it!
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jam69 Posted on 10/09/2019 12:26

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
you are atypical but not "the" title [:D]
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 12:28
Edited On: 10/09/2019 12:28
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Saving that for next year Jam.[:D][^]
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coluka Posted on 10/09/2019 12:32

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Ok atypical, Englands batsmen are much stronger [8)]
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 12:35

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Well that's obviously not what I said either.
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1st_time_caller Posted on 10/09/2019 12:38

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
"its just a little wooden urn" [:(][:(][:(]

it's what that "little wooden urn" stands for; what is represents

i can't believe I've seen you write those words

to be continued...



apart from that though, i'm looking forward to the 5th as well. smith is still going to be the thorn in the side, but maybe we can get him out this time and then, who knows. i think 2-2 would be fair as IMO the 2 teams have been fairly even - only 1 player and a couple of performances have made the differences between a win and a loss in the games so far
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Lottowyn Posted on 10/09/2019 12:44
Edited On: 10/09/2019 12:49
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Smith has obviously been the difference between the teams, but I see England as having more potential than the Aussies with Jofra the stand out man.

I am glad that I support England though. Listening to the new non-sledging Aussies I think I would be even more brain dead than I am if I had to listen to their lamebrain wickerkeeper/captain and his every ball appealing and his "good ball Nate". What an ass! [:D]
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 12:49

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
1TC, I said in May I'd rather we won the World Cup than the Ashes.

If we now square the series at 2-2, and I do think we could, it will still have been a great summer regardless of where the little wooden urn ends up. They'd still not have won a series here for decades if they lose at the Oval.

I'd honestly prefer to win the Test Championship and hopefully this series' shortcomings will be used as the springboard towards that, especially if we win the WorldT20 next year which I think we will.

Champions in all 3 formats [pa]
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Abel_Tasman Posted on 10/09/2019 12:49
Edited On: 10/09/2019 12:59
I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Hi Atypical. Picking up on our conversation after Edgbaston in which I said to you that England would not win the series because the batting line up is not of sufficient quality. I agree Smith and Labuschagne were the difference but the fact is they were the quality England didn’t have. Losing Cook again was a big blow and he has still not been replaced. Also I should say that too many on here wrote Australia off before the series saying Eng would win 4 or 5-0. Zorro for one 😀

Yes I’m looking forward to the final test as well. I’m going on Day 1 on Thursday and Day 4 Sunday so if anybody fancies meeting up for a pint to discuss how watching one of the best batsmen to ever play the game is a privilege just say.
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wombledon Posted on 10/09/2019 12:52

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Burns
Denly
Root
Roy
Stokes
Bairstow
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Archer
Leach

Changes to be made in the winter, especially to the batting lineup. Root to move back down to 4 and positions 2 and 3 need serious consideration.

I'd look at whether Bairstow is really the best option WK over the likes of Foakes too.

Root should also consider dropping from the one day squad to focus on his batting and test captaincy. There's plenty of power and ability available to do without him. Especially when Hales returns.

Hales, Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Rashid

Plenty of other names could join that lineup too.
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 12:52

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Abel [^]

I hoofed it in reply to your comment yesterday, I do like to reflect on threads gone by after the event.

You were right that England wouldn't win the series and you were right about Jason Roy.[^]

I did say it would be the tightest series since 2005 though and I think that might be the case, especially if we win at the Oval. I never understood the 5-0 comments either![:D]
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Supermac Posted on 10/09/2019 13:18

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
"Root should also consider dropping from the one day squad to focus on his batting and test captaincy. There's plenty of power and ability available to do without him. Especially when Hales returns."

This is more of an argument he should drop the captaincy for me. Despite all that power hitting he is easily our best and most consistent ODI player. Averaging 50 plus where he doesn't have any responsibility other than batting an anchoring an innings
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 13:23

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Agree supermac, his ODI average suggests he shouldn't be retiring from that format any time soon. He also plays a vital role in anchoring the innings, something he should be doing more in the test format.
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HolgateCorner Posted on 10/09/2019 13:36

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
It’s a game of very fine margins cricket and there have been some big things which have gone in Australia’s favour at key moments -

Jimmy Anderson injury - bowler short most of Edgbaston
Lords test - Australia saved by the weather
Headingley- England won
Old Trafford - good toss for Australia to win, bowling conditions poor first day, dropped catches by England, ball change helped Australia final day.

Maybe closer than has appeared and a chance to prove it at the Oval although it has the feeling of a dead rubber.

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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 14:31

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
I think my point HC is that it isn't a dead rubber, and to me it doesn't feel like one. All to play for [^]
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HolgateCorner Posted on 10/09/2019 15:10

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
I hope you are right and that the players get up for it [^]
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atypical_boro Posted on 10/09/2019 17:17

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
[^]
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Gains Posted on 11/09/2019 03:29

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Aussies have totally deserved it they've been the better side. I think we'd have been a lot closer to them without Root as captain. He's a great player but he's not a captain.
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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 09:30

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
A lot calling for Root to step down as captain.

If you feel this is justified as his batting form has suffered then I can understand to a certain extent but in terms of his tactical decision making I am not sure what another captain could have done differently and would like to hear more thoughts about that.

I don't feel it is time for a new captain yet. England have competed in this series and as somebody says above just fine margins and a bloke called Smith.
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wombledon Posted on 11/09/2019 09:33

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
I know and understand Roots batting average is very good at ODI, I’m sure I defended him on here too when some criticised his “slower scoring”, but it should be about priorities. Test cricket should always be the priority.

Steve Smith spoke of his year out the game giving him time to refresh and focus on his batting.

Yes, maybe Smith has been helped by not having captaincy responsibilities, and there’s plenty of calls for Root to step down as captain, but who are the realistic alternatives?

Some have mentioned Stokes, but asking him to bowl, bat and captain the test side, as well as play ODI and T20 is an incredible amount of work as well as pressure.





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Supermac Posted on 11/09/2019 09:41

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
How many would have came up with Tim Paine as a realistic alternative for Smith this time last year? You find out about people when you throw them in, Buttler with a view to Burns supported by Root and Stokes would work fine i think.

Root use of the change bowler has been the issue for me. Underbowled Woakes, Used Overton too early after tea when the series is on the line and Broad and Archer had made inroads. In fact that spell after tea summed up his captaincy for me, we had them 44-4 and the only way Aussies can win is score quick runs, should have kept that session really tight and squeezed them but he cant contain, same happened with Smith at Edgbaston when we had them 8 down, kept giving him a single to farm strike.
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Ian_Tony_Kenrose Posted on 11/09/2019 12:25

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
They have the best batsman and bowler in the world, and they've proven to be the difference.

Marnus (not going to attempt his surname) has been a real (lucky) find for them.

Broad and Archer have been superb but our back-up bowling has been way off theirs - even a poor last couple of tests from Lyon and he's way more effective than Leach (who has been more notable for his batting). Stokes and Woakes have both had decent spells but lack the consistency that the Aussies have had right through their changeable bowling line-up. Old Trafford 2nd innings was prime example - Broad and Archer had them on the ropes, but our bowling changes let them off the hook and before you know it Smith has taken the game away from us. If only we'd have had Jimmy fit...

Burns, Broad, Archer, Stokes have been real plus points, but the rest are either out of form or out of position or (in 1 or 2 cases) out of their depth in test cricket.

But I'm still really excited for an Aussie test match at the Oval [LOVE][LOVE][LOVE]

For the Winter I'd love to see Sibley and Pope get a chance, and see more of Foakes and Curran.
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fosm Posted on 11/09/2019 12:49

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
Smith has been the difference. without him we'd have won the urn back.

Can't see how we will win the fifth test as we just cannot get him out before he's got a ton of runs.


His obvious talent makes the cheating even worse though.

Furthermore, the three of them were banned for the one incident when its fairly certain they were doing it during the last Ashes. They should have been stripped of the urn and made to win it back properly - although that might have been even more unbearable this time round.

Smith is a brilliant batsman but will forever be tarnished by his cheating
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CardiffDaffs Posted on 11/09/2019 12:54

I'm actually really looking forward to the fifth Ashes test

 
“How many would have came up with Tim Paine as a realistic alternative for Smith this time last year?”

Over here not many but in Australia yes. He’s the most experienced cricketer in the roster (behind Smith and Warner) and at the age of 34 has been playing first class cricket for 15 years.

Your criticism of Root’s bowler handling for me is hyper critical. Yes we can all have gripes about this and that decision in isolation but overall I didn’t feel he did a bad job on that score. Yes his batting performances in this series have been disappointing but he’s still 3rd in the averages (not saying much I know).

I just think we have a penchant for demanding change when results don’t go our way. Prior to this series England had won their last 3 series under Root. And I don’t include Ireland.



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