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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 18:31
Edited On: 13/04/2019 18:45Electoral fraud.
 
Happening again my daughter is at Sunderland university. She is registered as living with me but has a flat in Sunderland.last week received our polling cards obviously one for my daughter.she came home this weekend has informed us that she is also able to vote in Suderland local elections surely this is electrol fraud ?.
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BoroBen92 Posted on 13/04/2019 18:34

Electoral fraud.
Only if she votes in both places.
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 18:43
Edited On: 13/04/2019 18:44
Electoral fraud.
Ben surely to stop electoral fraud they should only be able to vote in one area. This is encouraging electoral fraud.
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Fuchs_ache Posted on 13/04/2019 19:22

Electoral fraud.
She can only vote once.
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 19:26

Electoral fraud.
Yes i know that but in this day and age of computers this should not be happening. lazy local councils not doing there jobs.
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BoroBen92 Posted on 13/04/2019 19:29
Edited On: 13/04/2019 19:31
Electoral fraud.
Plenty of people have two addresses because of education.
It ensures people can vote whenever the election is.

Not fair to make students who've moved down to Exeter from Carlisle for uni have to travel the breadth of the country to vote.
I suppose they could just have a postal vote but it's not exactly difficult to see if someone has voted twice and then charge them.
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Exiled_in_herford Posted on 13/04/2019 19:30

Electoral fraud.
Surely it's partly your fault for not informing the Council that she no longer has her main residence at your house?. The council can only do so much without the relevant information I would have thought.
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bear66 Posted on 13/04/2019 19:34

Electoral fraud.
You have to register to vote. You can, as a student, be registered to vote at home and term-time address. You are allowed to vote in local elections at BOTH places but can only vote once at a general election.
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 19:39

Electoral fraud.
Thanks bear that answers it.So does that mean at a General election she will only get one polling card ?
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hielo Posted on 13/04/2019 19:46

Electoral fraud.
So its not Electoral fraud then [rle]
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bear66 Posted on 13/04/2019 19:48

Electoral fraud.
I'd guess she would get a card at both addresses but it would be her responsibility to only vote once.
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Sortie Posted on 13/04/2019 19:49

Electoral fraud.
I only read last week that you can vote using both addresses in a local election provided its not for the same council. It's only national elections where it isn't allowed even though you'd still be registered to vote in each area.
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 19:56

Electoral fraud.
So if that's case then surely by sending two polling cards out for two diffent constituencies is encouraging electrol fraud ?. As it happens she graduates in July so probly won't affect her. But this is something that needs addressing.
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Fuchs_ache Posted on 13/04/2019 20:25

Electoral fraud.
In January my father in law informed his insurance company that he had had a stroke, in February I informed my local council that my daughter had moved to a flat in Leeds as a student, my father in law could have kept his mouth shut and hoodwinked his insurance company. [rle]
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kuepper Posted on 13/04/2019 20:36

Electoral fraud.
it's not fraud unless she votes in both places at the same election, she's eligible to vote in both places in GE but can only vote in one. Not hard to understand really.



Link: VOTE
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Sortie Posted on 13/04/2019 20:45

Electoral fraud.
mickgaz

How can something that's legal encourage fraud?

Currently you can own a car that is capable of exceeding the speed limit using your argument if you get caught speeding would you argue that it's the car manufacturers fault?
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 21:04

Electoral fraud.
As happened at the last election where students where encouraged to vote twice by labour activists I am asking the question why is it still happening ?. Oh silly me labour run all labour councils in the north east that's why.
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Sortie Posted on 13/04/2019 21:15

Electoral fraud.
Mick what don't you get about it being legal to vote in two local authority elections?

I hope your daughter is putting her education to good use
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 21:23
Edited On: 13/04/2019 21:25
Electoral fraud.
No sorry sortie I don't get it.If it is a local election as Bear has pointed out well that's OK because they are not worth a w@nk.
But if the same rules apply in a General election then in my eyes that is encouraging electrol fraud.
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NorfolknGood Posted on 13/04/2019 21:25

Electoral fraud.
I saw what you did there Sortie, even if Mick didn't. [:D]
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 21:27

Electoral fraud.
Northfolk I saw it too but ignored it mind my daughter is the clever one in the house lol.
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Sortie Posted on 13/04/2019 21:34

Electoral fraud.
It was me that pointed out she could vote in two local elections. You seemed to be saying that was wrong.

She has a right to choose which one she votes in at a General Election or European Election. Her choice no one else's.

Vote in two and she breaks the law but she's probably bright enough to know that.
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 21:44

Electoral fraud.
Yes sortie and she knows that as do i. But what you don't seem to grasp is that it should not be happening in the first place. There should be something in place to stop this. And correct me if I am wrong but university students were actively encouraged by labour activist's to vote twice at the last General election. I would have thought three year down the line this would have been sorted out.
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myfooty Posted on 13/04/2019 22:13
Edited On: 13/04/2019 22:23
Electoral fraud.
At the last general election I just walked in to the polling station. I give them my details and was giving the ballot paper which to vote. I wasn't asked for ID or a Polling card. I could have been anybody.

Somebody could have spent the day going around polling station voting under other people names.
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TheFair86 Posted on 13/04/2019 22:14

Electoral fraud.
Seeing as youíve repeated this claim about 15 times so far, have you got any actual sources for it or is it about as well thought out as your Brexit posts?

From memory it was students saying they had voted twice and nothing was ever proven after investigations - donít think Iíve ever heard anything about labour or labour activists encouraging this, and itís clearly not lazy councils. It should be happening because they can choose where they want to vote - their home constituency or their university one.

Given itís a crime, how many people were arrested and convicted as a result of these claims?
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 22:24

Electoral fraud.
There were labour activists on the streets encouraging students last election not saying it was anything to do with the labour party fair. And I am blaming this government for not sorting this out three years down the line. And yes I did vote leave and still believe we will be worse of staying in the E.U
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TheFair86 Posted on 13/04/2019 22:24
Edited On: 13/04/2019 22:26
Electoral fraud.
So did anyone actually vote twice?
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 22:27

Electoral fraud.
Yes it was proven google it there were prosecutions
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TheFair86 Posted on 13/04/2019 22:39
Edited On: 13/04/2019 22:40
Electoral fraud.
I did google it because I like to check facts

One person was convicted and not for voting in multiple constituencies. It was a gentleman who voted in person and via his postal ballot, so nothing to do with labour activists encouraging people to vote twice.

You said there were prosecutions in plural, reality is one guy was fined for something totally different. Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Link: BBC
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mickgaz Posted on 13/04/2019 22:46

Electoral fraud.
Yeah Mohammed zain but how many more got away with it in two separate constituencies that what you have to ask yourself. Here we are three years down the line and my daughter has two different polling cards for two different areas.It needs sorting out before a General election.
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myfooty Posted on 13/04/2019 23:03
Edited On: 13/04/2019 23:05
Electoral fraud.
Each voter gets their ballot paper number registered against they name. So election commission would know if a person voted twice as the same person.
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TheFair86 Posted on 13/04/2019 23:06
Edited On: 13/04/2019 23:07
Electoral fraud.
ah right so I have to imagine a situation without facts? Makes sense.

You said there were prosecutions, thatís plural, and told me to google it. I did google it, and one guy got a fine, but not for what youíre even talking about. He was registered twice at his home address with variations of his name, and used both votes. He wasnít encouraged by labour activists and didnít vote at both his home and uni constituency.

Your daughter has two different polling cards perfectly legally because sheís in two different constituencies as has been explained to you a few times now.

It doesnít need sorting because they can pick which one they want to vote in because they live in two areas. If they vote twice it will show up.

Sorry but what youíre saying just doesnít hold water. Itís conjecture of the worst sort.
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kuepper Posted on 13/04/2019 23:22

Electoral fraud.
"It needs sorting out before a General election."

it's been the legal position for ages ie over many general elections.

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Anton_Berg Posted on 14/04/2019 08:45

Electoral fraud.
The system relies on people being honest, and on fraudulent voting being equally distributed between candidates. It is therefore no longer fit for purpose, now that identity crime is common (as far as is known).
People in student accomodation should not be allowed to vote locally given that their expectation of living in that constituency is, on average, 1.5 years (less holidays). For example, the vote on John Prescott's NE assembly included residential student voters, even though it's consequences were for perpetuity.
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TheFair86 Posted on 14/04/2019 09:37

Electoral fraud.
But they do live locally, and not all return home all the time. They might not be moving back home when theyíre done with uni either so may not be any point having a vote for a candidate that you only spend Christmas and summer holidays in the area for.
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bear66 Posted on 14/04/2019 09:42

Electoral fraud.
The system also allows for people to work away to vote for their local amenities.
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Sortie Posted on 14/04/2019 11:11

Electoral fraud.
mickgaz

When the law was written the people most likely to have more than one address would have been Tory voters. Are you suggesting when the law was written and enacted that they were deliberately trying to manipulate the results of elections?
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Trug Posted on 14/04/2019 11:35

Electoral fraud.
Labour were encouraging students to vote, NOT to vote twice.
As or banning students from voting at all because they may not live in the area for very long-ffs- are you saying that you now need to promise not to move out of the area once you have voted?
What about armed forces and their families?
People who work away from home in a regular location? (I once worked in Dunbar for a couple of years but travelled home on weekends- I was registered to vote there). In a nutshell, very little electoral fraud happens. But take a look at the House of Lords and have a look at the way they vote to elect one of their own-not fraud but certainly rigged.
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TheFair86 Posted on 14/04/2019 12:09

Electoral fraud.
Trug, what Mickgaz is referring to is an isolated incident where some weirdo activists were telling students they could vote at home AND at uni. It was never proven that anyone went away and did it, but as with his brexit posts and council tax posts, Mickgaz reads one thing written somewhere, and then presents it as fact - so now apparently its common practice and people have gone to jail for it.

In reality it's not something that is really happening, just something some nutters said to do once.

ironic that he told me to do a google search though, when he clearly hasn't done one himself.
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Liamo Posted on 14/04/2019 12:10

Electoral fraud.
''There were labour activists on the streets encouraging students last election not saying it was anything to do with the labour party fair.''

The story about 'labour activists' encouraging students to vote twice was specifically in regard to local elections, which as even the article below, which for some reason posits the viewpoint that this is potentially undemocratic, admits is perfectly legal.

As I understand it, one of the reasons the law is this way is because it emerged that previously many students were only receiving voting cards for their home address which ended up effectively disenfranchising them, if a snap election was called during term time and they couldn't manage (sometimes couldn't afford) to get home in time to cast their vote.

This is not electoral fraud, it's the established and perfectly legal procedure to make it easier for people to cast their ballots, who might otherwise find it problematic. As far as I'm concerned, any measure which allows and encourages more of the eligible voters to participate in an election is a good thing.

As has already been pointed out to you, a Google search does not show anyone being prosecuted for voting in two different locations.

Link: Labour activists tell students to vote twice
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Sortie Posted on 14/04/2019 15:36

Electoral fraud.
The were being advised of their rights.

Is there a problem with that?
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Anton_Berg Posted on 14/04/2019 15:43

Electoral fraud.
n.b. I didn't say ban residential students, or travelling workers, from voting. They can vote in their home town or by post. Home is where you take your laundry.
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bear66 Posted on 14/04/2019 15:46

Electoral fraud.
Even the electoral commission say you can vote in two locations for local elections.

Link: Link
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Sortie Posted on 14/04/2019 17:13

Electoral fraud.
"n.b. I didn't say ban residential students, or travelling workers, from voting. They can vote in their home town or by post."

Why do you think students should do as you think instead of how the law is?

"Home is where you take your laundry."

My laundry gets done wherever I am, and when needed.


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Big_Nothing Posted on 14/04/2019 23:02

Electoral fraud.
Don't think MickGaz has thought this one through.
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