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Calculus Posted on 12/04/2019 07:32
Usyk vs Joshua
 
 
Looks like its happening if he beats Takam (he will) in his heavyweight debut.

Canít wait. Iíll have a few quid on Usyk points. Ridiculously fast for a big lad.

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DoomOnHorseback Posted on 12/04/2019 08:04

Usyk vs Joshua

 
I'd put money on Joshua avoiding him in favour of trying to unify first. I'd say this guy poses the most threat to beating him in the division. Will be an interested observer for the Takam fight. See how well he does for his first fight since stepping up, and if he disposes of him easily as Carlos can take a punch.
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EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 12/04/2019 10:25

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Yippee say Joshua's team, two more fights and we don't have to face Bomb Squad.
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 12/04/2019 10:31
Edited On: 12/04/2019 10:32
Usyk vs Joshua

 
I think Usyk has a chance to beat Joshua. It really depends how he deals with these huge heavyweights, but for years he was sparring the likes of Klitschko and also fought at Super Heavyweight in the WSB. So i'd say that if he is moving up to Heavyweight, it's because he knows he can deal with it. He's a smart man.

Very interesting addition to the division. He will cause a lot of problems the big flat footed fighters like Joshua.

I think Fury is the one Usyk might find it difficult against because Fury has the size, but he also has the movement, jab, reflexes to negate some of Usyk's movement, then Usyk has more than just size advantage to overcome.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 12/04/2019 11:09

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Ffs is Epiphany still beating that drum? Dear me.

I cant see how Usyk gets through 12 rounds without getting hurt by Joshua. He'll probably outbox him for spells and make him look silly at times but I think Joshua will get to him and stop him late.
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Vena Posted on 12/04/2019 11:15

Usyk vs Joshua

 
going back a few months ago I thought Wilder was looking to coast to 50-0 avoiding dangerous fights, (and aging Ortiz and a fat Fury aside) however I think Wilders fight with those two in addition to fury getting fit, Klitchko's possible return, the introduction of Usyk and rise in levels or Whyte Mean that AJ and Fury cant coast for long against poor opposition, therefore I think the unification could take place this year.

One will get beat sooner or later, for sure AJ could be beaten my USYK, Wilder gets out pointed by most top 20 heavy-weights if they can avoid the right hand, cant see how it makes sense for them to keep gambling on the fight getting bigger.

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burnsyooo32boy Posted on 12/04/2019 11:47

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk beats aj now on every day of the week twice on a Sunday his boxing ability and ring IQ is far and away above. He doesn't get caught at cruiserweight nevermind heavyweight
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toshoffathebillstash Posted on 12/04/2019 11:57

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk does get caught, he just generally can take the hit. We will see if its still the case at Heavyweight and how much it wears him down getting moved around by bigger guys
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EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 12/04/2019 12:00

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Beating the same drum?

Beating the same fact for like.
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burnsyooo32boy Posted on 12/04/2019 12:01

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Joshua has two things over him his power and experience at heavyweight.usky has distance, timing, speed, ring iq the ability to take a fighters heart away, defense, work rate fitness he can box on the front foot box on the back foot he has everything. Take the belts and stardom out of it and for me, Joshua goes into this bout as an underdog. Usyk is far superior in so many areas but it won't come across like this in the media due to how big Joshua is to the British public.
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burnsyooo32boy Posted on 12/04/2019 12:08
Edited On: 12/04/2019 12:09
Usyk vs Joshua

 
He will be fine at heavyweight I'm sure his sparring will be top notch against heavy guys he will be well prepared incase he has to take big shots. Boxing is all about using your brain the hands are the small part if you have good ring iq and are very clever with your boxing he can use the size to his advantage I've never seen someone his size with his ability.
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toshoffathebillstash Posted on 12/04/2019 12:11

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Its heavyweight boxing though, all these guys will get beat in their career it only takes one punch at that level.

Usyk is a fabulous boxer but at heavyweight you can still get found out, Ali lost 3 times, Lennox 2 times and Joe Louis 3 times.

I know fighters have a lot less fights nowadays but dont be surprised if all the big guys in the heavyweight scene lose at least once if they all fight each other. That said I think we will miss out on many of the big fights due to politics
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burnsyooo32boy Posted on 12/04/2019 12:21

Usyk vs Joshua

 
In any heavyweight bout one punch can change a fight its called a punchers chance, it happens but no way in this world will joshua beat him because he is the better fighter. Boxing abilities are worlds apart, yeah he might land one shot and it's over but to say someone will win a fight because of that before the fight is ludacrus. The fact he has stepped won't really bother him his sparring will be top notch and be will be well prepared.
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 12/04/2019 13:04

Usyk vs Joshua

 
We have never seen a Heavyweight that has the style he has. We have never even seen a Cruiserweight like him. Of course there has been great Cruiserweights and Heavyweights with good skills and movement, but Usyk is very unique, like Lomachenko.

Today's heavyweights have never fought anything like this before, not just in terms of skill but the style that goes along with it. Take power out of the equation and he is levels above todays heavyweights. The only guy that could possible compete with him in some of the skill department is Fury, he has great intelligent movement, feet and ring IQ too.

When you look at it skill for skill, you would have to imagine the likes of Joshua only really have a chance by imposing their size and power if possible. Outside of that, he would box circles around someone that flat footed and orthodox.

It's not even like Usyk is small. He's about 6'3 or 6'4. Joshua is 6'5" ish. So height wise there isn't a lot in it. Plus he was boiling down to Cruiserweight. People have in mind that it'll be Joshua verses the Usyk we see at Cruiserweight, which won't be the case.

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ThePiedPiper Posted on 12/04/2019 13:28

Usyk vs Joshua

 
What's this nonsense about Usyk not getting hit? [:D]
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 12/04/2019 13:37

Usyk vs Joshua

 
He can certainly be hit, anyone can, but there's being hit with shots and then there's being hit with the really damaging shots.

Mayweather used to get hit, but actually landing a flush full blooded shot on him was extremely difficult. That's the difference. Usyk does get hit too. Bellew could tag him, he also got caught a bit v Briedies and Gassiev at times.

That said, your average cruiserweight is much quicker with their punches than most heavyweights. That's why some Cruiserweight's feel confident moving up to Heavyweight because they know they can land their shots better and probably see shots coming easier and get hit less.

Maybe Usyk's power will be even better at Heavyweight than at Cruiserweight because he isn't cutting so much weight. We can talk about the power of Wilder and Joshua when it comes to one punch power, but what if Usyk can box circles around them and almost land at will? that will cause damage to them too in accumulation.
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thebugle Posted on 13/04/2019 13:52

Usyk vs Joshua

 
You cant just "take power out of the equation"!!!

Sorry AJ, you arent allowed to hit him harder than he has ever been hit in his life... not sure it works like that.

I rate Usyk massively, but he got clipped a lot early doors by Bellew. If he gets hit like that by AJ he will find out quickly what heavyweight boxing is about.

Usyk is a brilliant boxer, there is no doubt about that, and I think a fight with AJ will be close, but he will not have been in the ring, sparring or other wise, with anyone with the size, speed and power combination that AJ has.

Can he keep the bigger men (he will likely be giving up 2-3 stone in weight) off for 12 rounds? Im not sure.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 13/04/2019 22:32

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk doesn't seem to mind taking a shot. He happily traded with Joe Joyce in the World Boxing Super Series. The big factor in Usyk's favour is that he can do lots of different things extremely well. Usyk didn't really respect Bellew's power. You could see when he realised he was good to go in about the 4th round. That's when Bellew started to doubt himself as he knew that Usyk would be always bearing down on him. I think Usyk fancies himself against Joshua.
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swordtrombonefish Posted on 13/04/2019 23:10
Edited On: 13/04/2019 23:14
Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk seems to have it all as the above would testify, but he has not as yet done it as a professional heavyweight and that will be his test.

I think this is the fight I'd most like to see happen as soon as possible, given the wrangling with Fury, Wilder etc. It's excisting as a prospective spectacle and one I'd pay to see.
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Heam44 Posted on 13/04/2019 23:20

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Will Usyk speed / movement be affected by his increased size?
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SilentProf Posted on 13/04/2019 23:47

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Almost certainly. Haye slowed down when he went up to heavyweight but he was still by far the quickest and best mover in the division.
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bigrichardthe3rd Posted on 14/04/2019 07:06

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Aj to win inside 4 rounds [B)]
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 14/04/2019 13:53
Edited On: 14/04/2019 13:55
Usyk vs Joshua

 
"Aj to win inside 4 rounds"

I can't see that. He struggles with movement.

Remember Parker give him some movement and AJ looked lost and never had a chance of knocking him out. Takam was smaller and give him a bit of movement too and he didn't look impressive. He only stopped Takam due to a bad stoppage, watch it again, AJ missed every shot of the combination and the ref jumped in.

Joshua is very flat footed and needs to set his feet to throw shots. If you don't let him set his feet, he looks very very basic, just like he did v Parker. It's just Parker didn't have the skill to throw meaningful shots while moving so AJ could rely on reach and jab to get through the fight and win on points, but Usyk can throw from all angles while moving.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 14/04/2019 14:11

Usyk vs Joshua

 
AJ looked lost against Parker? Behave man, he won pretty much every round.
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wartle Posted on 14/04/2019 14:52

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Big Baby beats Joshua.
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 14/04/2019 15:08
Edited On: 14/04/2019 15:12
Usyk vs Joshua

 
"AJ looked lost against Parker?"

In terms of being able to land significant shots, yes. Parker didn't allow AJ to set his feet, so he could never bring any shots over after the jab and put shots together. That's a big flaw in Joshua, he cannot throw without being set and Usyk could exploit it because he always turns his opponents while throwing and never lets them set their feet and be properly balanced. AJ might have won most rounds against Parker, but it's because Parker was not skilled enough to throw properly when moving. He knew movement would negate AJ's offensive skills, but he was only good enough to do half of the job. Someone like Usyk can move and throw from angles.

Wilder is the same. The only times Fury got caught is when he become a stationary target and stopped using the angles and lateral movement.

Same reason Canelo had trouble with any fighter that could move and throw, such as Lara and Mayweather. He also needs to have his feet set before he throws shots. That's why the Jacobs fight might be interesting.

If you can keep fighters like that moving, you can take away almost their entire offensive game. It doesn't mean they're not good fighters, it's just a case of styles making fights.
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Wordsfailme Posted on 14/04/2019 21:55

Usyk vs Joshua

 
AJ completely controlled the fight against Parker.

Some garbage being spouted on this thread.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 09:24

Usyk vs Joshua

 
"AJ completely controlled the fight against Parker.

Some garbage being spouted on this thread."

My thoughts exactly.
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StarPlayer Posted on 15/04/2019 09:31

Usyk vs Joshua

 
I think it would be an interesting fight but Usyk would probably have to gain a lot of weight which may sap his stamina and speed. The weight would have to be quality weight also and I don't see him being able to bulk up enough legally
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 15/04/2019 11:39
Edited On: 15/04/2019 11:40
Usyk vs Joshua

 
"AJ completely controlled the fight against Parker."

Nobody said he didn't. He did well to work off the jab and control things. I said he couldn't ever put together shots well in the fight because Parker was giving him movement that other fighters hadn't before. So he had to stick to working behind the jab, which he did well. It also helped that the ref jumped in whenever they tried to do any inside work.

My point was that Usyk can throw while moving, which Parker couldn't do that well. His movement was good at not letting Joshua put shots together like he usually does, but he couldn't follow it up with shots of his own.

Joshua fights in straight lines, he is very basic and orthodox, i don't mean basic as in bad, his style is just very upright, throwing combinations off the jab. I don't think you can just work in straight lines and work behind a jab against Usyk. He uses too many angles and throws along with it. If he keeps turning Joshua, it would never allow Joshua to set his feet and work off the jab as he likes to.

That was the point. He may have been able to control Parker with a jab, even if that's about all he could do, but doing that to Usyk who best attributes is movement and hitting while moving is a different task altogether.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 16:08
Edited On: 15/04/2019 16:09
Usyk vs Joshua

 
You said he looked lost. Kinda' implies he didn't control the fight. Also, the ref breaking them constantly done Parker more favours than it did Joshua. AJ looked far stronger on the inside.
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Wordsfailme Posted on 15/04/2019 18:13

Usyk vs Joshua

 
He looked lost but completely controlled the fight?

No need to reply, Iím exiting this thread, complete nonsense.
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Boromart Posted on 15/04/2019 18:31

Usyk vs Joshua

 
It's ridiculous to claim that Usyk will beat a top heavyweight, he hasn't even fought at that weight yet.

It's 30 years since we saw a Cruiserweight step up and really dominate, Usyk has a lot of hype to live up to, and although he is clearly far too dominant at Cruiser, it doesn't necessarily translate when he goes in with the big boys.
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 15/04/2019 20:44
Edited On: 15/04/2019 20:45
Usyk vs Joshua

 
"He looked lost but completely controlled the fight? "

He did, he looked out of ideas on how to cut off the ring, change his offence and setting up shots. He controlled the fight off the jab because he had to, and i give him credit for that, but Parker's lack of ability of hitting and moving allowed AJ to control the distance with just a jab. It won't be so easy to control fights off a jab if the opponent can give you different angles and throw from those angles.

A boxer can still control a fight but still lack ideas on being able to set up shots and put punches together. Klitschko v Haye was similar. Klitschko was never in a position to put more than 2 shots together due to Haye's movement, but Haye's lack of punch output during that movement allowed Wlad to just use the jab freely.

Then take Wlad v Fury for a counter point. Fury give Wlad similar movement and never let him set his feet, the difference is Wlad could never establish a jab because he knew Fury could always offset him with angels and lateral movement and also throw while doing it and it took away Klitschko's jab completely and if he cannot work off the jab, he offence is non-existent. If you took Joshua's jab away, there wouldn't be much else coming because he works everything off the jab.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 21:21

Usyk vs Joshua

 
He looked comfortable beyond belief in what was a huge unification bout. Not once did he look in any danger of losing the fight. Had he chose to step on the gas and take Parker out, he could have at any time he wanted. As it transpired, he cruised to a UD.

You know your boxing but when it comes to Joshua and Matchroom you are biased Cincinnati. Of that I have little doubt.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 21:27

Usyk vs Joshua

 
I even think Fury is scared of Joshua. Why else would he turn down 60/40 at Wembley for 3 belts? I dare say the ring magazine would've been thrown in there as well.

Tell you why. Fear.
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AyresomeAvenger Posted on 15/04/2019 21:33

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Thinking of the politics...
...what tv deal is Usyk tied to and who does that indicate is a likely opponent?
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 22:13

Usyk vs Joshua

 
He's a Matchroom fighter tied to Dazn and Sky Sports.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 15/04/2019 22:18

Usyk vs Joshua

 
With regards to natural size, there's not much difference between Usyk and Joshua. In fact Usyk is probably a bigger unit. He's also certainly naturally bigger than say a David Haye. Usyk shouldn't have any trouble stepping up to Heavyweight.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 22:20

Usyk vs Joshua

 
His list of potential opponents is endless. It's TAkam in May, then anyone from Joshua, Whyte, Chisora, Povetkin, Hrgovic, even Dave Allen could be in the mix if he beats Browne then Price. Hearn has promotional rights on a lot of heavys.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 15/04/2019 22:23
Edited On: 15/04/2019 22:24
Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk is a bigger unit than Joshua 😂😂😂 what fŻckin idiot.
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whatdoyoubench Posted on 15/04/2019 22:36

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Fury is all wrong for Joshua and thatís clear for everyone to see. I donít think for one second heís scared of him.

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whatdoyoubench Posted on 15/04/2019 22:38

Usyk vs Joshua

 
I also do not agree that Joshua couldíve got Parker out of there at any time but chose to go for the decision because that is very much not the style he has shown throughout his career. He simply couldnít. But thatís okay because he did dominate the fight and got the win.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 15/04/2019 22:41

Usyk vs Joshua

 
I guess you've never seen Joshua before he started boxing [:D]
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Boromart Posted on 15/04/2019 23:31
Edited On: 15/04/2019 23:38
Usyk vs Joshua

 
'bigger unit' how is Usyk a bigger unit? He is a decent sized cruiser but he has to step up now

Anthony Joshua is 3 inches taller and 23kg heavier. Povetkin was 13kg heavier than Usyk and get slapped around like a rag doll
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cincinnati_reds Posted on 15/04/2019 23:42
Edited On: 15/04/2019 23:45
Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk definitely isn't a bigger unit but i think he will be strong enough to compete at Heavyweight. He looks like he can fill out, i think Cruiserweight was a struggle for him.

I think Usyk has a bigger frame than Povetkin though. Usyk seems naturally bigger. I think Povetkin could've made Cruiserweight in his late 20's and early 30's if he wanted to cut the weight. It would've been a struggle but possible i think.
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Boromart Posted on 15/04/2019 23:51

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk is only an inch taller, but he has got a much bigger reach, he could fill out, but I think it'll take a couple of years for him to reach where he needs to be to fight the top guys. I fhe goes in now with Wilder, Fury or AJ he will get bullied.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 15/04/2019 23:57

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Joshua doesn't have a big natural frame, he's massively pumped up. It was the same with Haye but Joshua is taller so is able to carry the muscle more effectively. Usyk apparently walks around at 15 and a half stone. Both Joshua and Haye have the natural frame of a cruiserweight.
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Boromart Posted on 16/04/2019 00:42

Usyk vs Joshua

 
well there are different ways to analyse this. If Usyk is truly a big cruiserweight who has been working hard to stay in the cruiserweight division, well that gave him large physical advantages at that weight, naturally a bigger frame for that weight, that allowed him to be the bully. He could take more chances at that weight because even glancing blows will be felt, and it would take a perfect punch to stun him from smaller lighter guys.


Well now that advantage will be gone, he will be the lighter guy, how will he adjust to deal with this? Will he fight more reserved, more defensive? Will he fight as he does at cruiserweight? He did get regularly hit at cruiserweight, if takes that many punches at heavyweight he will get knocked out.

Also if he has the natural frame of a heavyweight, then why spend 5 years at a lighter weight, with less glamour and less money?

Takam is a good first heavyweight fight for him, Takam is short, but experienced and tough. He should win it, he will facing a bulkier guy than he has ever fought, but without the physical presence of a Joshua or Wilder.
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Dynamo_kev Posted on 16/04/2019 04:30

Usyk vs Joshua

 
ha ha funny threat this.

i'd like to see usyk keep coming forward as he does against AJ wilder and fury, they'd really hurt him. tbh i think whyte parker chisora povkin will be a real handful for him. never mind the others.

usyk looked comfortable against bellew because he was a lot stronger. but got to remember bellew is a smart guy and wasnt stupid enough to go in and be wrecked by the real heavy weights. usyk has a chance at mixing it with them but i'm not expecting him to go in a win or dominate.

as for AJ everyone struggling with movement. said povkin would give him problems, bam smashed him out no problem.

everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face lol

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Jostler Posted on 16/04/2019 07:22

Usyk vs Joshua

 
ďeveryone has a plan until they get punched in the face lolď

Haha Dynamo, happens to me when I come up with a plan t reduce my missusí spending
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 16/04/2019 07:23

Usyk vs Joshua

 
To suggest that Usyk was relying on a large physical advantage at cruiserweight is ludicrous. Have you never seen him box? [:D]

Starting at cruiserweight was obviously the right thing for him to do. Clean up the division and then move up to heavyweight. The big money in the heavyweight division has only come about in the last couple of years. Most of the Klitschko opponents were earning peanuts. Wilder's had 40 fights and hasn't earned a massive amount. Usyk is arriving onto the scene at the perfect time.

And by the way, Usyk stops Joshua all day and every day [^]
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Boromart Posted on 16/04/2019 10:29

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Ah right_honourable wilfully misinterpreting other peoples comments to support the weight of his own ego....theres a surprise.

1) I didn't say Usyk relied on his physical advantage, I said he had a physical advantage which allowed him to take more risks, be more open and attacking, and that he simply wouldn't be able to do that at heavyweight. That has no resemblance to your interpretation.

2) If he is such a big guy, your allusion being that he is naturally bigger framed than 'cruiserweight build' AJ ([cr]), then I'm not sure why starting at cruiserweight is the right thing to do, and to move up to heavyewight at 32 only gives him 3 or 4 years before he peaks

3) Your assertion that the big money in the heavyweights has only been around the last couple of years is also wide of the mark. Heavyweight is the blue ribbon weight category, it has always been better financed than cruiserweight, even when there were no real superstars. If Usyk wanted the money, there was always more to be made at heavyweight. If he wanted the kudos, then there was more to be gained from heavyweight.

4) if klitschko opponents were earning peanuts, then who are the cruiserweights that were earning more in that era?

5) Wilder, has he earned more than Usyk?

Usyk is a good boxer, but until he gets hit with heavyweight power we will not know how good he is, but thanks for speculating.
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ThePiedPiper Posted on 16/04/2019 12:51

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Boromart just destroyed Expo. 👏
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Vena Posted on 16/04/2019 13:47

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk wont go out of his way to call the Mandatory unless it fits in Eddies plans,
2 or 3 fights minimum before calling out AJ IMO.

Takam
Chizora
Parker or Povetkin.

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ThePiedPiper Posted on 16/04/2019 14:22

Usyk vs Joshua

 
Usyk has no choice in when the mandatory is called to be fair. The WBO order it in October I think, then if Usyk doesn't want it, Whyte will be next in line.
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The_Right_Honourable_Member Posted on 16/04/2019 19:17

Usyk vs Joshua

 
The heavyweight division is just emerging from one of the dullest periods ever. There was no money in it. The Klitschkos were the only big earners.

With regards to Usyk, it would make perfect sense fighting at cruiserweight. It's all about risk and reward. Why spend years and years going in with big heavyweights? He's got his long term health to think about. He's arriving on the scene at exactly the right time. With regards to getting hit with heavyweight power, Usyk has been in there and traded with Joe Joyce. Klitschko also walked out of the ring on him in Sparring.

As far as comparing Usyk's earnings to Wilder, they are quite similar. Their average purse works at about 400-500k per fight.
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