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borolad01642 Posted on 15/03/2019 03:35
Teesside Airport Deal
 
 
Fantastic news for the area!

Ben Houchen is doing more for this area than anyone has done in the past 20 years [^]
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CasinoGrande Posted on 15/03/2019 03:42

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Shhhhhhhh!.....*he's a Tory*
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Sortie Posted on 15/03/2019 05:22

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Erm, could that be due to money being made available to him that hasn't been made available to others.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/03/2019 05:40

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Ssshhhh don't tell the OP
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johnsmithsno2 Posted on 15/03/2019 07:44

Teesside Airport Deal

 
I'm no Tory, but would you give money to our local councils to spend?
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hopesoboro Posted on 15/03/2019 08:52

Teesside Airport Deal

 
What's happening?
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borolad01642 Posted on 15/03/2019 08:55

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Is his job to generate the funds as well as spend them.
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omega Posted on 15/03/2019 09:22

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Are you saying its because he is a conservative that he gets more money. If so then let’s vote cons and get a lot more money into the area. When they stop giving us money vote labour back in for them to spend something on this area which they never have
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Bruce_Rioja Posted on 15/03/2019 10:11

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Avoiding such tribalism, can we all just try to use the airport (finances allowing) as much as possible when the flights start.

Let's get behind it instead of makng cheap political jibes.
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mendieta420 Posted on 15/03/2019 10:32

Teesside Airport Deal

 
A lot easier to be popular when your only job is to spend tax payers money without having to worry where it came from. [^]
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gallivant Posted on 15/03/2019 10:34

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Totally agree Bruce, shame that some can't put politics to one side and look for the positive benefits that are currently in process, personally I could not give a toss where the money comes from or who sends it so long as it keeps coming. Tribalism is ruining the country stop being so bleeding thick.
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myfooty Posted on 15/03/2019 10:42
Edited On: 15/03/2019 10:51
Teesside Airport Deal

 
It's a good deal for Stobart Group. Stobart Group don't have to fund the airport the TVCA are the funding the airport, Stobart Group are being paid 10% of the airports agreed operating budget for being the airport manager/operators for the next 10 years. Stobart group will make millions from the deal even if the airport fails to make a profit or ends up closing.

Stobarts also has a option to take a 25% shareholding in the airport for free.

It could work out well if they get a say in what is happening with former Flybe business but I would expect the money people behind that to only look to do what is in the best interests for that business which Stobart Group don't control.
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bigrichardthe3rd Posted on 15/03/2019 11:03

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Done a great job Ben needs a pat on the back, teesside is gona boom,,, [^]
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borolad01642 Posted on 15/03/2019 11:07

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Mendieta, if it was that easy why has it failed so many times before?
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Johnny_X Posted on 15/03/2019 11:17

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Definitely a good deal for Stobart, don't see how they can lose. They have done pretty well with Southend airport, got a few resident airlines there now after 6 years. Carlisle airport has been a bit more difficult. The hard part will be getting an large anchor airline or airlines involved which will take a further large investment.
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HolgateCorner Posted on 15/03/2019 11:26

Teesside Airport Deal

 
There seems to be a lot of obsession by the cynics about this airport making lots of money.

My understanding is the logic behind the business case was that to regenerate the old SSI site it was more or less essential to retain at the very least the business flights connections to help attract inward investors.

There is a much bigger picture than just competing with Newcastle for the most drunken flight to the Costa del Sol.
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borolad01642 Posted on 15/03/2019 11:29

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Dont really care who is making the most money out of deal itself, but the more flights coming in to the area can only be good news!!

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teesside-bull1 Posted on 15/03/2019 11:40

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Setting the standards high i see ,Alicante flights wow,
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myfooty Posted on 15/03/2019 12:23

Teesside Airport Deal

 
The airport business and site will need atleast £200 million investing into over next 10 years or so. It needs a major infrastructure upgrade.

As for the flights the foucus should be on key routes that will benefit local business and people and holiday routes that can help support the airports passenger figures.

Current flights
KLM City hopper - Amsterdam.
Flybe / Eastern Airways - Aberdeen.
Flybe / Jersey Touism - Jersey (seasonal,summer, 1 pw on Saturday).
BH Air / Balkan Holdays - Burgas (seasonal,summer, 1 pw on Saturday).


Here is a list of what I think would be good key targets. These are routes that the airport should be able to support.

(UK)
Belfast
London. 1st city airport, 2nd heathrow airport, Gatwick airport,
Bristol or Cardiff
Southampton,
Cornwall Newquay,
Inverness,

(Non UK)
Paris
Dublin
Barcelona
Rome
Copenhagen
Hamburg
Lisbon
Prague

(Holiday routes)
Alicante,
Malaga,
Ibiza,
Palma De Mallorca,
Faro,
Gran Canaria,
Lanzarote,
Tenerife,
Corfu,
Dalaman,
Antalya,
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hopesoboro Posted on 15/03/2019 13:35

Teesside Airport Deal

 
I know it's a tad selfish but is there really any chance we'll get cheap flights to European holiday (or other) destinations, instead of having to get to Manchester?
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jiffy Posted on 15/03/2019 15:18

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Southend is doing well because Stobart rebranded it as another London airport - and why not its closer than Stanstead.

Since there are Carlisle-Southend Stobart flights presumably there will soon be a Teesside-Southend service.

So how long does it take from Southend Airport into central London and what transport links are already in place?
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myfooty Posted on 15/03/2019 15:33
Edited On: 15/03/2019 15:53
Teesside Airport Deal

 
Information from trainline site.

Southend airport to London Liverpool street by train takes on average 1hour. Fastest time is 53 minutes.

You would have be at the airport 1 hour before the flight and fly southend which likely to be around 45 minutes get from the flight to train station 20-40 minutes.

It will most likely take an average time to get to city of London of 3.5 hours via southend airport from DTVA. It would be quicker and less hassel via the train.

Darlington to London King Cross average journey time 2 hours 36 minutes fastest journey time 2 hours 16 minutes. 31 direct trains per day. Tube city of London takes 12 minutes. Via train you are looking at being in the City of London in 2.5 - 3 hours.

That is why London City Airport would be best option for business flights. But still doesn't beat train it is more about the preferred mode of transport.
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left_handed Posted on 15/03/2019 16:00

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Sadly never be able to get a flight slot into Heathrow, far too expensive; interesting fact is that Heathrow has more direct flights to China than the UK as a take-off/landing slot costs the same price whatever the the destination so the bigger planes with more demand gets the slots.
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Sortie Posted on 15/03/2019 16:50

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Bruce_Rioja

Some already use it as the airport of choice.
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Wev1 Posted on 15/03/2019 17:02

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Bristol, Exeter or somewhere like that would be a big positive for me. Ideally one where you can go down on a morning and back late afternoon, even if it's once a week. The train alternative takes about 7 hours each way and can cost over £250!

The main holiday places in Spain for quick cheap getaways should be highest up the list though. Think there would be loads of interest of people having a second holiday or weekends away if it was cheap and close enough. Newcastle is a ball ache with the traffic and trains, coupled with the fact it's the wrong direction. We always go from Manchester Airport because of the easy trains/ more flight choice.
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CommanderComcast Posted on 15/03/2019 17:14

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Yeah but you need to understand the whole market. EasyJet are not going to come to Teesside and put on the same routes as they do from Newcastle. Same with Jet 2 from Leeds. Ditto Ryanair.

So you've got to work out which airlines are going to operate routes where they will increase their turnover in total and not just take their existing passengers from other (Northern) airports.

And then the obvious question is why potential operators are not using a Teesside route already if it could be profitable for them.
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john_b Posted on 15/03/2019 17:18

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Rebrand it Durham London Airport and watch the cash roll in.
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JLinardi Posted on 15/03/2019 23:39

Teesside Airport Deal

 
I watched a program about Ryan Air and apparently they got small air ports to change their name to include destinations, for example some airport about 2 hours from Paris changed its name to Paris something or other.

Anyone know if that’s why Teesside changed to Durham, because of Ryan air?
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 11:03
Edited On: 16/03/2019 11:07
Teesside Airport Deal

 
BMIbaby demanded that the name be changed to Durham Tees Valley airport when the airport signed the 10 year deal with BMIbaby to base 2 aircraft at the airport.

It was a case of change name or lose BMIbaby.
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 16/03/2019 11:49

Teesside Airport Deal

 
They need to focus on smaller prop plane routes first such as Dublin, Belfast, London City / Gatwick. Then look to have 1 holiday jet based there doing the usual holiday routes. Most importantly it needs the local area to support it.
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redwurzel Posted on 16/03/2019 11:55

Teesside Airport Deal

 
George Stephenson Airport (its just off the first ever passenger railway)

Wasn't it called Goose something during WW2?

I like Teesside as a name but it might put off Mackems and Yorkies.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 12:36

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Surely people in Sunderland will go to Newcastle and people in York will go to Leeds Bradford? Bound to be more flights, destinations, bettter times, better facilities and a lot nearer to home so less likely to need parking / hotels / big taxi rides?
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 14:32
Edited On: 16/03/2019 15:14
Teesside Airport Deal

 
"They need to focus on smaller prop plane routes first such as Dublin, Belfast, London City / Gatwick. Then look to have 1 holiday jet based there doing the usual holiday routes. Most importantly it needs the local area to support it."

I undetstand what you saying but that isn't really why TVCA has committed to spending so much money on the airport business over next years. If the airport fails I would expect operations to be what you stated plus the current routes.


To have chance I think airport will need opertions
go up a lot from current level of operatipns.

It has been stated in reports in past that airport needs a lot more business to break even.

Current level of opertions.

This is winter timetable 28/10/2018 to 30/03/2019.

KlM City Hopper to Amsterdam- Embraer ERJ 175(88 seats)-18 return flights per week.

Flybe / Eastern airways to Aberdeen - BA Jetstream 41 (29 seats) 10 return flights per week. Shared flight with Humberside airport Embraer ERJ 145 - (50 seats) 4 inbound and 5 outbound flights per week.

Sumertime time table will see seasonal charter flights added to the time table. Both start on 18th May 2019.

BH Air to Burgas - Airbus A320-200 (180 seats) 1 return flight per week on the Saturday until it ends on 21/09/2019.

Flybe to Jersey - Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 (78seats) 1 return flight per week on the Saturday until it ends on 14/09/2019.

Plus the odd addhoc charter.

Number of flights on a average week during the summer.

Airbus A320-200 (180 seats) - 2 flights - maximum of 360 passengers.

Embraer ERJ 175 (88 seats) hopefully back to 38 flights - maximum of 3,334 passengers.


Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 (78seats) 2 flights - maximum of 156 passengers.

BA Jetstream 41 (29 seats) hopefully back to 32 flights - maximum of 928 passengers.

Maximum passengers with the current level of opertions = 4,778 per week.


The airport should be trying to atleast get the follow level opertions for passengers

Similar aircraft to
3 x Airbus A320 / A321 market (around 180 - 220 seats) aim 44 return flights per week. Passengers 7,900 to 9680

1 x Airbus A220 market (around 100 - 130 seats) aim 16 return flights per week. Passengers 1,600 to 2,080

2 x Embraer ERJ 175 market (around 70 - 90 seats) aim 42 return flights per week. Passengers 2'940 to 3,780

1 x Embraer ERJ 145 market (around 35 - 50 seats) aim 28 return flights per week. Passengers 980 to 1,400.


Maximum passengers per week 13,420 to
16,940. That would give a maximum number of seats on sale of 700,00 to 900,000 per year from seven aircraft.





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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 14:47

Teesside Airport Deal

 
"Surely people in Sunderland will go to Newcastle and people in York will go to Leeds Bradford? Bound to be more flights, destinations, bettter times, better facilities and a lot nearer to home so less likely to need parking / hotels / big taxi rides?" the differance in journey time on average is only about 10 minutes, so I wouldn't expect to play a big part.

As for flights times that could be main reason people end up picking Teesside over Newcastle or Leeds Bradford.

Both of these airports have silly times for many of the flights because the airports are so busy. As for destinations most people just go to same old places in Spain and Turkey.
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 16/03/2019 14:51

Teesside Airport Deal

 
They have said they will do it gradually so I think starting smaller prop planes first is a starting point.
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OPEO Posted on 16/03/2019 15:00

Teesside Airport Deal

 
All my early foreign holidays were from Teesside late nineties. T’would be nice to see it back in action.
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 15:06
Edited On: 16/03/2019 15:10
Teesside Airport Deal

 
Eastern airways and Loganair are the only operators that use smaller prop planes and there aircraft, reliability issues and prices are unlikely to help get passengers to pick a Teesside flight over Newcastle or Leeds Bradford.

Teeesside to Dublin used to be on a larger aircraft and was operated by Ryanair.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 15:17

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Do they? Normally when I fly from Newcastle or Leeds I have the pick of several times per day so can't say I've experienced that - any examples?

Just plopped newcastle into sky scanner and picked a popular day and month (Friday in August) and looked at some common destinations.

Dublin - fly from 6:40, 9, 10:40, 11:20, 13:00

Alicante - 06:30, 09:15, 10:10, 11:30, 13:00

Barcelona - 06:00, 06:05, 06:50, 08:00, 10:10, 11:00, 11:20, 13:45,

Ibiza 06:05, 07:20, 09:30 11:20, 11:30,

Amsterdam 09:30, 11:30, 11:40, 13;45, 17:30,

etc. Done same with leeds and the times are broadly similar.

These are hardly silly times given most people generally want to travel early to factor in flight time and not arrive in the middle of the night on day 1. These are all provided by multiple airlines operating the same routes in competition with each other. Teesside won't have that luxury so cant see the travel times being better, how can they be without multiple operators?

Travel time; york isn't a huge difference but still more local to them - Sunderland is absolutely not 10 minutes difference, and you can get the metro right to the airport building meaning its easy to do with baggage. About half the travel time by train & no walking with your baggage. By car its closer, but still 15-20 mins in it.

Sunderland to DTV - 46 mins to 51 mins by car, 2h 8 min by combination of walking and train

Sunderland to NCL - 33-42 min by car, 1 hr 3 min by metro direct to terminal building.

Plus no hotel at teesside airport if you need to stay over, less parking, more expensive parking (7 days parking at DTV is £57.95 vs £43.75 newcastle and theres always a promo code going around to reduce that even further) and better shopping/facilities, genuinely cant think of a single reason why anyone would come from sunderland to use DTV unless the flight was fully booked from NCL already.
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 15:34
Edited On: 16/03/2019 15:58
Teesside Airport Deal

 
That was my point most people don't want to get up at 2-3am to go to the airport for silly flight time. Those people would pick a later flight at Teesside if later flights are already booked or prices are higher at Leeds Bradford or Newcastle.

There is a reason the cheap flights to and from Spain etc. are the red eye flights. The reason is most people don't want them to be on them flights.

As for business flights the red eye flight is normal the busiest and the one most business need to be on if it is a short trip.

As for airport and hotel's I don't see it as a huge issue because the airport has good access roads and area has many hotels that are within 5 - 15 minutes of the airport.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 15:56

Teesside Airport Deal

 
So taking out the 6am flights, why would you haave to get get up at 3am? there are flights to spain for 9am, 10am, 11am 13pm, I can't really understand why you would have to get up at 3am to get one of those? you have the option of 5-7 different times depending on what your plans are.

majority of the flight times in newcastle are spread across the morning and if you want to get there at a reasonable time to have most of the day free on your first day you can do that, if you don't you can pick one a few hours later so cant really understand the problem? These flights are usually the fullest because people dont want to arrive in their destination at 8pm for those flights.

Business destinations at newcastle do have evening flights as well? Scroll through the departures board - they have flights at all times.

Even if this was the case, if they saw there was a market for it one of the many, many airlines operating out of Newcastle could just put on another flight, but would assume that the existing flight times are based on existing demand. Im fairly sure this isn't a new idea that no-one has had before, and Teesside will need volume traffic to be viable, not feeding off scraps.

Teesside won't have that option because there will be no competing airlines.
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 16:17

Teesside Airport Deal

 
"So taking out the 6am flights, why would you haave to get get up at 3am? there are flights to spain for 9am, 10am, 11am 13pm, I can't really understand why you would have to get up at 3am to get one of those? you have the option of 5-7 different times depending on what your plans are."
You wouldn't have to get that early at 2-3 am for the other flights. You asked for reasons why some people may choose to use Teesside over Newcastle or Leeds Bradford. I have given you two very good reasons, flight times and prices maybe better at times which meqns some people from Sunderland or York are happy to use Teesside.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 16:21
Edited On: 16/03/2019 16:32
Teesside Airport Deal

 
But you haven't given me a good reason - you've made a baseless assumption that Teesside flight times will be better because its "less busy" when Newcastle has flight times already spread throughout the day. If Teesside came in with "better" flight times, do you think that the airlines using Newcastle are just going to sit and watch their customers go to other airports? they would just put on another flight time! However the existing flight times will have been carefully chosen based on demand analysis and working the commercials out on them, and if there is no flight at that time at both LB or NCL, its probably fairly telling that its not really going to be a roaring success at DTV.

however the majority of holiday goers do not want to travel later, so I'm not sure what customer base you're expecting to lure with these later flights as people don't want to arrive in resort at 8PM, and fo business flights newcastle and LB already cater with later flights?

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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 16:46
Edited On: 16/03/2019 17:19
Teesside Airport Deal

 
I know my reasons valid. I have to travel alot with work and because of this I have used a lots of the UK airports to get to over 25 different countries in the last few years. I go on lots overseas trips each year with the family and friends. When I go with family we look for best flights and fair price. When I go as a group of lads it always ends up being s*** times on the red eye flights because the budget is always low so more lads can come on trips. We often end travelling feom Manchester or Leeds bradford for these cheap flights. We always see groups at those airport from our area, Newcastle and Sunderland etc.

People mostly look at flight times and price before decideing which airport. Then the best perfumes and watches, food and drink places etc. get looked at.
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 17:01
Edited On: 16/03/2019 17:15
Teesside Airport Deal

 
"however the majority of holiday goers do not want to travel later, so I'm not sure what customer base you're expecting to lure with these later flights as people don't want to arrive in resort at 8PM, and fo business flights newcastle and LB already cater with later flights? "

I'm not saying holiday flights should be late. The flights times have to suit both airports.

For Business the red eye flights are key. This is early morning and the later return flight.

My mate has just sorted our June trip out. Told us we be going from Newcastle with good times. Now it is all booked and everybody has paid him he us we couldn't get those flights so booked Leeds Bradford 2:30am pick up from Stockton and the return departs at 11pm, so we will be get back into Stockton for about 2-3am. Still he kept the four day weekend trip to the Med under £300 like he said he would. Some would say the lad has been a pri**, at times like this I agree[:D]. But he has used his time yet again to plan another trip and get all the money from everbody etc. to sort that for the 16 lads won't have been easy. So I think we will cut him a bit slack for his s*** flights and get some drinks for his efforts.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 17:29
Edited On: 16/03/2019 17:31
Teesside Airport Deal

 
Well typed out a long post and this sh+house of a forum truncated it for using the
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whatdoyoubench Posted on 16/03/2019 17:35

Teesside Airport Deal

 
Off it you son. Who wants to get a flight in the late afternoon??

A load of people experienced in operating airports failed to make this airport work but there a large number of inexperienced members of the public that apparently could.

Sounds familiar actually
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 17:39

Teesside Airport Deal

 
I seen your post. If you aren't on red eye business flight you aren't going to be doing much work that day. Especially whem factor fot travel times and times differnces.

If you arr going longhual you need to be on red eye flights in most case to make the connections.
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 17:53
Edited On: 16/03/2019 19:46
Teesside Airport Deal

 
"Off it you son. Who wants to get a flight in the late afternoon?? "

No one has said anything about late afternoon flights.
No body is saying the wheel needs to be reinvented with the airports.

Flights leave to differnt areas areas at different times to suit airports, traffic control etc.

Exapamle
Most flights to the Carary Islands are later in day.
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TheFair86 Posted on 16/03/2019 18:09

Teesside Airport Deal

 
But the point is there ARE red eye business flights available now as well as normal times. how big a market do you think this is and why are major airports not thinking of it but posters on a boro forum are?
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myfooty Posted on 16/03/2019 18:43
Edited On: 16/03/2019 20:02
Teesside Airport Deal

 
"But the point is there ARE red eye business flights available now as well as normal times. how big a market do you think this is and why are major airports not thinking of it but posters on a boro forum are?"

No one is saying try something new that other airports aren't doing so I don't what you mean by your post above.

Passengers figures
Newcastle: 2006; 5,431,000. 2018; 5,332,000
Leeda Bradford: 2006; 2,792,000. 2018; 4,038,000
Durham Tees Valley: 2006; 918,00 2018; 142,000
In 2006 DTVA had 10% of passenger 9,141,000 using the 3 airports.
In 2018 DTVA had 1.5% of passenger 9,512,000 using the 3 airports.

At peak times Newcastle and Leeds Bradford are at full capacity. Teesside has slots and capacity available to offer to airlines.

I think we may see some airlines move traffic from those airports to Teesside looking for better times and a better share of the passenger market at a suitable market rate. Some airlines like Thomas Cook and TUI have already started to look for new routes and airports because the competition on the current networks is getting tough.

It will be interesting to see what the plans are for Flybe after the takeover by connect airways (Virgin Atlantic, stobart Aviation, Cyrus Capital) If flybe have ambitions to grow the airport might be able do deal that see it as part of those plans.


I know there has been talk off the airport targeting the likes of Easy Jet but I think it is more likely the airport will target Thomas Cook, TUI and Flybe.

I think targeting Thomas Cook, TUI and Flybe to grow its routes will be a good business move for all involved. All only have a small presents at Newcastle and Leeds Bradford airports and would be a good fit at Teesside. But those airlines would want to know airport owners are willing to invest into growing the airport business at suitable rate to match the airlines future business plans.

If airlines come to Teesside they could take up the best slots and capacity without direct competition from the low cost airlines like Jet2, Eady Jet, Ryanair etc.
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