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Gadgee Posted on 04/12/2018 20:30 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| and media outlets shut down and people still want to stay. the same eu that an army wasnt on table. now a reality Link: terrifying |
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Oooo Posted on 04/12/2018 20:37 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| The clip shows EU Parliamentarian Marcel de Graaff warning AGAINST the consequences of the UN Compact on Migration. In other words, it's not the EU pushing this but the UN, and this guy is actually standing up for free speech. |
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kuepper Posted on 04/12/2018 21:01 Edited On: 04/12/2018 21:03 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| quite a bit of misinformation by OP. The spokesperson in the video is talking about a UN conference in Marrakesh (which should have been a clue it wasn't an EU initiative as Morocco isn't in Europe) to discuss the draft Global (ie not just the EU) Compact for Migration that's been agreed by UN member states ie it's not an EU law. And BTW the EU army isn't a reality either.... Link: the global compact for migration |
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Gadgee Posted on 04/12/2018 21:15 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| there are 28 countries signing up to the agreement. who do you think they will be? |
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TheSmogMonster Posted on 04/12/2018 21:23 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| So not you're doubling down on your initial misrepresentation? |
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Riponred Posted on 04/12/2018 21:27 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| What’s so terrifying about the prospect of a European army? Can’t this only be a good thing or is it just me! Just baffles me why people think it would be absolute Armageddon |
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Remster Posted on 04/12/2018 21:38 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "So not you're doubling down on your initial misrepresentation?" It's a bit like talk of "leaving Europe", isn't it? Only less of a misrepresentation. |
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kuepper Posted on 05/12/2018 00:41 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "there are 28 countries signing up to the agreement. who do you think they will be?" There are 193 member countries of the UN, quite likely most will sign up to it as it just seems common sense |
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dougt Posted on 05/12/2018 01:23 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "There are 193 member countries of the UN, quite likely most will sign up to it as it just seems common sense" Common sense is to deliberately confuse the legality and status of migration and consider it a universal human right??? Interesting then that a fair portion of Europe, US, Australia, NZ and Israel are either not signing the Compact or are considering not doing so. |
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ExFootyLegs Posted on 05/12/2018 08:37 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I think it is despicable this migration rubbish of the country's overloaded. I ask you to broaden your horizons and look beyond your little picture in your mind. Our NHS, hospitality sector, farming industry, the Care sector to name just 4 of many industries or sectors which rely on migration and actually keep the costs of such care or hotel visits low enough in order for many people to afford them. There is a reason why it costs an absolute fortune to live in the likes of Australia. Immigration is under strict control and therefore every service you wish to purchase costs a small fortune. As a result the likes of basic food items cost way more than they should. The contribution migration offers to the NHS alone is good reason to understand the benefits. I am just waiting for a staunch leaver who hates migration to need hospital treatment. Driving in listening to five live radio there was a guy whose mum hurt herself and got picked up in an ambulance by a Polish chap, taken to hospital, greeted by a greek doctor, xrayed by a spanish radiographer and then seen by an irish doctor. Who in their right minds thinks migration is a black and white issue ? Migration has many good elements for our country. |
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turnoffsaysthestar Posted on 05/12/2018 09:05 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| nobody doubts immigration is good for the country,but in the case of eastern europe there was to many to fast there was an imbalance it hit communitys,services,nhs,policing,housing etc especially when they brought their families over as well.the goverment predicted 500000 and then they could not count them as 4-6 million arrived the majority taking one form of benefit if not for themselves for a member of theirfamily. |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 09:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Except the numbers don't show that. Non-EU net migration over THREE time net EU migration last year. |
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Remster Posted on 05/12/2018 09:12 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| What don't the numbers show (with reference to the previous post)? |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 09:21 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| They've all gone home. The majority are here for seasonal summer work and they don't bring their families and they've stopped coming since the £ nosedived. |
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claytonsrightfoot Posted on 05/12/2018 11:02 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "nobody doubts immigration is good for the country,but in the case of eastern europe there was to many to fast there was an imbalance it hit communitys,services,nhs,policing,housing etc especially when they brought their families over as well.the goverment predicted 500000 and then they could not count them as 4-6 million arrived the majority taking one form of benefit if not for themselves for a member of theirfamily." What's the evidence that it hit services such as the NHS? To use a more famous radio presenter question - Have you been turned away from your GP or a hospital? |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 11:19 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Balance of immigration (non-UK citizens)/ emigration: Immigrants: non-EU 5.9 million EU 3.8 million Emigrants: non-EU 5.5 million EU 1.3 million Market forces will continue to drive immigration / emigration. |
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Bentley86 Posted on 05/12/2018 11:56 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Eu workers undercutting local wages and crosiing picket lines again today. scabs |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 11:58 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| EU workers frying up because wages are too low in the UK (at current sterling exchange rates). We'll just get non-EU workers from very low income nations replacing EU workers. Market forces. |
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Bentley86 Posted on 05/12/2018 12:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| you've done well if you already know hat the visa requirements are going to be. eu workers, we are still in, undercutting teessiders wages, laughing crossing picket lines, being supported by the likes of bear66. shame on you |
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claytonsrightfoot Posted on 05/12/2018 12:27 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| How about looking at it as people willing to work for such low wages and in such poor conditions. Which picket lines is it they are crossing? |
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Bentley86 Posted on 05/12/2018 12:33 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| How about looking at it as people willing to work for such low wages and in such poor conditions spoken like a true tory capitalist remainer. what happens when the next person works for less than them. men fought for years for the agreed rates to be rode roughshod over the picket line at the gate |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 12:56 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| The EU workers don't think it's worth it as reducing numbers show. Wages should be booming now they've stopped coming to pick fruit at minimum wage. They're not. Farmers are diversifying to non food activities as a result. |
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Remster Posted on 05/12/2018 13:42 Edited On: 05/12/2018 13:43 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "They've all gone home. ... and they've stopped coming since the £ nosedived." OK, but the poster wasn't talking about last year. "The majority are here for seasonal summer work and they don't bring their families ...". At least this is relevant to what the poster was talking about, but it's not shown by the numbers you cited ("Non-EU net migration over THREE time net EU migration last year"). |
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ExFootyLegs Posted on 05/12/2018 14:49 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Bentley86 ; yours is a bad example because those meccy fitters et al who cause chaos at the likes of Wilton roundabouts drag their feet finishing projects (as you all know you will get offered OT to quicken the project) and drag the name down of UK projects as you drain companies of money with red tape and 'safety' issues. Some may be genuine but a lot are not and you lose credibility for walking out because the works cat was denied a good meal. Lower wages of EU workers is at worst a smokescreen for your militant activities. And I am a Labour voter. |
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nashvagas2 Posted on 05/12/2018 14:52 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I think Australia being so expensive is due to the minimum wage being $18.20 per hour. |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 16:04 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| It's (surprisingly) difficult to get the figures Remster, and even more difficult to get an understanding. The lack of leaving checks doesn't help. The non-EU figures are higher than you can make out for the essential jobs they're supposedly reserved for. (Medical practitioners, pilots etc.). Possibly family members or foreign companies bringing their employees here. |
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BarnesBoroFC Posted on 05/12/2018 16:12 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Nashvegas It's not particularly expensive if you work in Australia though. I was working minimum wage in Sydney and Melbourne and lived a pretty good life. It felt to me as the pricing in Australia was set that way to drain the tourists rather than the locals. |
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Borocelt Posted on 05/12/2018 16:17 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Fake news from the OP. To be expected. Their precious Brexit is falling apart, so they're back to relentless lying. |
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Remster Posted on 05/12/2018 16:55 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "It's (surprisingly) difficult to get the figures ..." Indeed. |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 17:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| You'd think someone would set up a system to measure immigration if it was important. Apart from NHS limits on non-EU doctors, there's not much overseeing of immigration. |
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Remster Posted on 05/12/2018 21:24 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Important to whom? |
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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 23:24 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Anyone who mentions "immigration". May and her 10s of thousands for a start. Immigration and emigration is good for the world as far as I'm concerned. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 00:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Immigration and emigration is good for the world as far as I'm concerned." Spoken like the true selfish, neo-liberal, greedy, Western capitalist pig you are. |
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richb Posted on 06/12/2018 07:46 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Spoken like the true selfish, neo-liberal, greedy, Western capitalist pig you are." Or like an international socialist. The idea of freedom of movement has support and opposition across the political spectrum. |
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superstu Posted on 06/12/2018 08:26 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Immigration and emigration is good for the world as far as I'm concerned." That's a bizarre view in my opinion. I don't have any problem with immigrants - I don't really see it as any different from myself moving down south for work - but what makes immigration good for the world? In my opinion, if there was good jobs/income/standard of living everywhere there'd be few people that wanted the hassle and inconvenience of uprooting. You have to look at it from the point of view of countries that are losing their citizens as well I think. Are Eastern European countries happy to spend time and money training doctors only for them to pack up and move to the UK? How do you keep your taxes up and pensions affordable if half your 20-40 year old population all skedaddle? What about when countries use immigration as a groundwork before expansion? Is it good when Russians migrate to Ukraine or Chinese people migrate to Tibet? Even if you know those nations governments will eventually use that migration as a justification for annexation? Again I'm not trying to say immigration is inherently bad or anything. Just think it's weird for you to think it's inherently good. |
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Remster Posted on 06/12/2018 08:44 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "You'd think someone would set up a system to measure immigration if it was important [to anyone who mentions 'immigration']." What if the people with the power to set up the system don't care what's important to the people who mention 'immigration' (other than themselves)? |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 09:27 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| It really isn't important to them as the market is more important. Anyone for a Golden visa? |
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uncle_rico Posted on 06/12/2018 09:34 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| People aren’t against immigration. People are against mass immigration which puts extra burden on already failing services. People don’t mind people coming here from the EU or the rest of the world to work, pay their way and integrate into UK society. People don’t want people coming who refuse to integrate, refuse to work, want a free and easy life and to take everything they can. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 09:40 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Failing services are totally the blame of this government, not immigration. We export our higher health need emigrants to Spain and bring in lower age, low need immigrants. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 09:48 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Again I'm not trying to say immigration is inherently bad or anything. Just think it's weird for you to think it's inherently good." Anything that breaks down cultural and geographical differences by people meeting each other face to face is good, in my opinion. I really value the Asian and Indian subcontinent friendships I've developed over the last 40 years. |
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uncle_rico Posted on 06/12/2018 09:53 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| You should go to Savilletown Bear66 if you want some face to face interaction with other cultures. |
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superstu Posted on 06/12/2018 10:25 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "We export our higher health need emigrants to Spain and bring in lower age, low need immigrants." I don't think that's true. I know the trope exists of people retiring to Spain but I bet the people that can afford to do that aren't the British pensioners with the highest healthcare needs. I notice you didn't mention anything about what happens to the countries losing their "lower age, low need" people? Or when countries use migration aggressively? |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 11:05 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Old people get I'll no matter how wealthy they are. There are problems with that. Again, mainly due to us not training the people we need. This is an obvious are to provide money to countries specifically where we rob their trained people. In reality, the 278000 non-EU immigrants are not all doctors and nurses. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 12:09 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Failing services are totally the blame of this government, not immigration." Because adding 200k-300k people per year to a society that already struggles with infrastructure investment is definitely sustainable. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 12:12 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Definitely. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 12:15 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Not. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 12:20 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| The demands of caring for older people won't just go away. The NHS would be even worse off than it is without immigration helping out with the shortfall of workers in the care industry. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 12:26 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| An incredibly simplistic argument, not surprising from someone who advocates mass immigration. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 12:31 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| It is simple. There isn't some big force in the sky determining immigration and emigration. The world has suffered from this at a national level as well with large cities housing 80% of their national populations rather than 20% 70 years ago. People need to eat so they go where the jobs are. Employers need workers and couldn't care where they come from. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 12:35 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| And it is clearly not sustainable. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 12:38 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| It would have stopped if it was unsustainable. The reducing influx from the EU is leading to a shortfall that will have come from somewhere else to meet our economic and social demands. |
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Remster Posted on 06/12/2018 12:39 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "It really isn't important to them as the market is more important." Sorry, to whom is immigration really not important? |
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uncle_rico Posted on 06/12/2018 12:41 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Its not simple at all. You are basing your argument on the elderly care industry. This country hasn't run out of people who can work, it has too many people that aren't prepared to. Importing more people to work isn't the answer and doesn't address the fundamental problems. Its too easy for those born here and those who wish to come here to get a easy ride. The genuine migrants, who come to work, integrate and pay into the economy are great for the country. But there are far too many who don't. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 12:43 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "It would have stopped if it was unsustainable." Not necessarily, and it may well get to that point in future. You've acknowledged the investment in infrastructure doesn't exist to support this population increase and yet you still encourage mass-immigration because it's more about fulfilling your extreme and warped ideological position. |
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lapennabianca Posted on 06/12/2018 12:44 Edited On: 06/12/2018 12:46 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "But there are far too many who don't." Any evidence to back that up? |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 13:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| > Link: academic.oup.com/ej/article/124/580/F593/5076967 |
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superstu Posted on 06/12/2018 13:08 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
"An easy ride"!!!![[:D]](../../../../images/smilies/grin.gif) if only! |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 13:46 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "You've acknowledged the investment in infrastructure doesn't exist to support this population increase" I didn't. People are the investment in 'infrastructure' that is needed. For physical infrastructure, I voted Labour last time and will next time. Very warped idea that breaking down tribal enmity and indifference is a warped idea. If there are others with that warped idea, no wonder there's so much trouble in the world. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 14:01 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "For physical infrastructure, I voted Labour last time and will next time." I really couldn't care less who you voted for. That physical infrastructure is a necessity that isn't happening and yet you still advocate a policy of mass immigration because you appear to have convinced yourself these people are of no burden whatsoever on the pre-existing infrastructure. "Very warped idea that breaking down tribal enmity and indifference is a warped idea." It's warped ideology when it's clearly not happening. Go read up on the occurrences in Park Hill, Sheffield. Today and five years ago. |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 14:04 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I lived in Sheffield through mass migration for 12 years. I used to volunteer at Park Hill in the 60s/70s. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 14:10 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Good for you. So you should be aware of the increasing tensions that exist between the differing communities there, where immigrant folk themselves are rejecting further immigration. Or is this something you conveniently ignore because it doesn't fit in with your deluded ideology? |
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 14:18 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I was last there two years ago. No tensions then. I wonder what has happened since 2016? |
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newusername Posted on 06/12/2018 14:25 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "Because adding 200k-300k people per year to a society that already struggles with infrastructure investment is definitely sustainable." It is much worse than that, according to the latest figures there are nearly 750k new people every year in the UK and only 600k left. They should be told we are full up & to go back where they came from. I for one will be picketing maternity wards & old people's homes in the near future and I encourage you all to join me. |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 14:28 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "No tensions then." Apologies, it's Page Hall. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/15/sheffield-page-hall-roma-slovakia-immigration https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4018946/The-town-immigrants-fed-migration-Failing-schools-filthy-streets-benefit-fraud-ROBERT-HARDMAN-dispatch-accuse-Brexiteers-racist-read.html https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/roma-tire-shouldering-blame-boiling-pot-communities https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10452130/Roma-in-Sheffield-When-it-goes-off-it-will-be-like-an-atom-bomb-here.html https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/sheffield-is-welcoming-but-not-for-young-roma-slovaks-1-8340923 https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/fir-vale-school-riot-shows-community-tensions-haven-t-gone-away-five-years-after-blunkett-s-explosion-warning-1-9367993 |
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Bentley86 Posted on 06/12/2018 14:28 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| seems like it's only white people migrating to America in the 1700s that seems to be an issue with the usual pro-migration |
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dougt Posted on 06/12/2018 14:31 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| A smiley face for newusername. |
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rob_fmttm Posted on 06/12/2018 14:33 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Just to clarify dougt is registered with a IP from Ukraine yet is posting from UK - very dodgy looking credentials indeed. He needs to go away and only return with a proper IP and not one he is hiding behind. |
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doug_t Posted on 06/12/2018 15:00 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| It's called a VPN, rob. I suspect a fair few others on here use them to, particularly those with with boxes. But that's not your issue here. It's the fact you're uncomfortable with the discussion being had because it undermines the warped ideology you share with bear66 and any criticism of the immigration policies we've seen in the past 20 years isn't acceptable. Unless of course that criticism is of the Tories failed manifesto pledges to reduce it to tens of thousands. |
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Wiseman_Vaughn Posted on 07/12/2018 09:29 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| That is the first time I have seen Rob mention IP addresses as a way of potentially excluding someone from this site. |
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rob_fmttm Posted on 07/12/2018 09:34 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I constantly exclude people for this reason. I don't always publicise the fact. But anyone whose email or posting attracts my attention I check up. |
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rob_fmttm Posted on 07/12/2018 09:37 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Doug is a troll. Quite simply put. |
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ExFootyLegs Posted on 07/12/2018 10:15 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Rob ; more than a troll...he comes across as far far right and a BNP member looking to influence and recruit individuals into their twisted mindsets. Dividing people. Do not rule out some Russian influence Rob because Russia are desperate to divide us & the EU and infiltrating social media is their way of spreading their views and as I say, recruiting. |
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Wiseman_Vaughn Posted on 07/12/2018 10:28 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| I suppose people use VPN's for a number of different reasons |
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BarnesBoroFC Posted on 07/12/2018 10:29 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| He was arguing against capital punishment on another thread... |
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Remster Posted on 07/12/2018 10:38 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "he comes across as far far right and a BNP member" *Slaps forehead* |
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MidfieldDynamo79 Posted on 07/12/2018 10:45 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| Why not just change the name of the board to "Robs Echo Chamber and Virtue Signalers" |
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Ticker_Tape Posted on 07/12/2018 10:54 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
![[pa]](../../../../images/smilies/party.gif) |
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kuepper Posted on 14/12/2018 20:22 Criticism of Migration Illegal in EU |
| "there are 28 countries signing up to the agreement. who do you think they will be? " On the contrary 164 countries including the UK signed up to the compact but several EU countries didn't |
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