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bblf Posted on 04/12/2018 15:23
Edited On: 05/12/2018 20:12Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds
 
 
What's your thoughts on this following the decision today to report a police officer for possible criminal charges.Someone he knocked of a bike ended up in hospital with head injuries. They were later discharged home and the lad was charged with 4 crimes including theft of the motorbike.He was not wearing a helmet while being chased.

I'm for the tactic. I think there will be injuries but over a period of time they will realise what can happen and this type of crime will reduce dramatically.
The police will need protecting against charges.
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littledick Posted on 04/12/2018 15:25

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Coppers need to make a better job of it, and kill the XXXXXXs [^]
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The_same_as_before Posted on 04/12/2018 15:27

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
I will be a wet liberal on this one. The law has to be better than the criminal.

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Cleveleyssmoggie Posted on 04/12/2018 15:28

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Court date in April?
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heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 04/12/2018 15:33

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
If the moped driver is knocked off the bike more than 100ft think that should be the benchmark for excessive force.
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Borobarmy Posted on 04/12/2018 15:34

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Thatíll teach him . Thatís the copper I mean [:(!]
As above should of murdered the half breed
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atypical_boro Posted on 04/12/2018 15:37

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
The problem will come if and when they get one wrong though, ie they get the wrong guy and/or they end someone's life for stealing a moped.
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xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 04/12/2018 15:39

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
its similar to iff a copper needs to use a gun to stop a criminal possing a threat to the public...

they have guidlines and hopefully follow them and all incidents where the crim is injured will no doubt be investigated by the IPCC...

peonally, if its "safe" to do so, ie no injury to the inocent public then the suspect has made the choice and should face the concequences, it cant just be used for a dodgy tail light though...
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brattleboro Posted on 04/12/2018 15:51

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
was only a matter of time
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FatalEmission Posted on 04/12/2018 16:58

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
One day the police are going to just think screw this, the country can sink in the filth it's happy to protect from the law.
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jam69 Posted on 04/12/2018 17:12

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
the police should be killing them ? the depths this country is sinking to, no problem knocking them off if it's done under the right circumstances
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bear66 Posted on 04/12/2018 17:12

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Only those trained to do this will be able to do it in the future. This incident was before that edict.
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JonSina Posted on 04/12/2018 17:59

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Reading about it and seeing the labour response from Diane Abbott it just proves that MPs arenít in touch with the people.

I donít know anybody who isnít happy that the criminals are getting knocked off.

Like people have said, most are thinking the knock off isnít excessive enough.
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Mfc79 Posted on 04/12/2018 18:06

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Lets hope the jury in this case is made up of like minded people as you described, JonSina.
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Nosmo-King Posted on 04/12/2018 18:09

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Off off off off not of. School systems must be shyte these days.......
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Norman_Conquest Posted on 04/12/2018 18:12

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
He should have been wearing a helmet and he wouldn't have got head injuries.

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borobuddah Posted on 04/12/2018 19:00

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Itís disgusting that police are allowed to seriously hurt suspects. The are not above the law
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FatalEmission Posted on 04/12/2018 19:36

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
It's even more disgusting that criminals are allowed to hurt innocent people and spineless liberals jump all over the police when they try to do something about it!
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scally Posted on 04/12/2018 20:07

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Imagine the buzz the coppers get from this [:D]
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superstu Posted on 04/12/2018 20:57

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Instead of knocking them off the bikes the police cars should always have 1 driver, and 1 officer with a great big butterfly net. If they can get close enough to knock them off the bike then they can get close enough to catch them in a net. It's just common sense. [^]
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jcjc Posted on 04/12/2018 22:36

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
police well done time we all took a stand against the oxygen stealers
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borobuddah Posted on 04/12/2018 23:34

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
You can read about police brutality and abuse of power from many many years ago to the present, if you wanted to.......
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Foggysfplandiet3 Posted on 05/12/2018 00:44

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
More power to Plod on this one. I hope the thieving little ba$tards break every bone in their scummy bodies.
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borobuddah Posted on 05/12/2018 00:59

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
The vigalantes are out tonight

Or mebbe foaming at the mouth on their computers

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Small_town Posted on 05/12/2018 08:43

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Whom are the vigilantes? Surely those cell rating the polices extra power to stop criminals are the opposite of vigilantes?
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AlbertoBongaloid Posted on 05/12/2018 09:56

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Double points if they are carrying a passenger
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mendieta420 Posted on 05/12/2018 11:24

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
"police brutality"

tell that to the woman thats just had acid thrown in her face

the black teenager thats just been stabbed

the 80 yr old grandmother thats just had her bag stolen and been knocked to the ground

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bear66 Posted on 05/12/2018 11:49

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
The OP example didn't do any of those things.

The policeman involved hadn't been trained to do this so hopefully there aren't too many serious incidents like this.

Stopping cars driving at approaching 100mph in built up areas a concern to public safety. It'll only be a matter of time before all cars have a chip that can be activated to demobilise a vehicle at will by the police.
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go_nads Posted on 05/12/2018 12:07

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
Should have been done years ago, the technology is there, it must be cheap as chips. Same as every new vehicle should have a tracking device and should be able to have speeds limited when on roads that are very busy/accident hot spots.

Compared to the price of a new car it will be buttons, but no doubt if these kinds of things ever happen, it will cost billions, over run and not work properly.

On a side note, I have a fast car, I no longer see the point in driving, the road and traffic conditions are just so poor. My next car will be a 1.4 or 1.6 purely to get from A to B, why have a top end car, just to get stopped at the next set of traffic lights and all the traffic builds up again.

Modern driving is an absolute chore.
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Mfc79 Posted on 05/12/2018 15:20

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
"Itís disgusting that police are allowed to seriously hurt suspects. The are not above the law"

Well its ok then as the police are acting within the law.
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truthBomb Posted on 05/12/2018 15:49

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
seen Tracey lately?

I heard she was walking down the street pushing a pram and out of nowhere came a guy on a moped. the guy hit a tree and the moped hit the pram. apparently he'd been hit by a police car and the impact sent everything west.

oh okay. any decent parmos round here?
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Small_town Posted on 05/12/2018 16:12

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
But the lives damaged by the moped criminals donít count just because someone ďmightĒ get caught up in an incident? These are trained officers remember and the key point is the action is effective. Reducing crime by 30% I understand. Surely thatís a good thing?

On a more serious note. Can someone please correct the thread title?
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Borocelt Posted on 05/12/2018 16:33

Police knocking people of their mopeds

 
It's important that there's proper discussion about the proper use of force, and that it's deployed in appropriate circumstances.

I don't think anyone has much of an issue with it being a means to apprehend violent criminals, in the correct circumstances, but you have to appreciate the potential of either it going badly wrong, and they put someone under a bus, and also the potential that you might identify the wrong person, and it's used in the wrong circumstance.

The rules over when, and how much force the police should be permitted to use should absolutely be debated. Context is everything. Just like I happen to think overly confrontational policing at the football often makes things worse, not better, and you'd be fairly outraged to be on the end of arbitrarily aggressive policing on a match day.
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Small_town Posted on 05/12/2018 16:45

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
Absolutely debate the use of force. Simple fact is it works in this case.

Maybe we should stop police running after people? They could easily knock down an elderly gent, who then falls into a road gaining their hip, also causing a bus full of little chidrens to swerve into the wall of a hospital, killing 12
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Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 05/12/2018 18:21

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
It was only a matter of time before the use of this tactic went wrong and someone was badly injured or killed.

The fact us the law doesn't easily legislate for this, given there are so many variables.
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borobuddah Posted on 05/12/2018 18:27

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
Small town in the realms of absurdist fantasy, on a serious subject
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red_harrington Posted on 05/12/2018 18:36

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
Police should be allowed to use similar force to that used by suspects in order to apprehend them.

For instance, if someone has a gun, I'd expect the police to use a gun too, but in greater numbers of course.

Similarly, if there's a simple pub fight, the police should use similar force to restrain the perpetrator ie grappling and restraint techniques.

As such I can't see why the police shouldn't be able to use a car to prevent mopeds from speeding off. The idea is to knock them off and stop the pursuit, not to run them over or cause danger to the public.
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Small_town Posted on 05/12/2018 20:04

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
In my defence borobuddah, I wasnít the first to use such an anology to make my point. As such my version was actually a rebuttal of the original ďTracyĒ post. My points about itís effectiven still stand, as Iím sure you know as you couldnít argue against them and chose to just get personal instead!
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the_holgate_roof Posted on 05/12/2018 20:32

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
for me, the line in the sand has been drawn, the possible consequences are out there, the perpetrators have a decision to make, continue with the robberies, knowing the potential consequences or stop....
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norfolkred1 Posted on 05/12/2018 20:59

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
This type of crime is in decline which goes to prove the police are doing it right. Cover them in smart water just for good measure.
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Small_town Posted on 05/12/2018 21:00

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
Agreed, I hope common sense prevails and this is what happens
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Free_Subbuteo_171 Posted on 05/12/2018 21:00

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
The thieves have seen the rules of engagement change. Previously they knew the limitations of the police allowed them to escape easily, and regularly given the police couldn't act if they weren't wearing helmets.

It isn't police brutality. That's a nonsensical argument.

Totally the right call.
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borobuddah Posted on 06/12/2018 13:13

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
I wasnít being personal ST??
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2018 13:50

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
"The thieves have seen the rules of engagement change."

Apparently they haven't. Listening to the met rep this morning, the tactic isn't for theft but those who are escaping more serious crime, for which this activity was always an option. The difference is that only those trained to do so can ram a two wheeled vehicle, wheras anyone could do it before.
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bblf Posted on 06/12/2018 16:56

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
The Independent office for Police complaints have told police officers they all face prosecution if anyone is hurt using this tactic. Bit odd when the police high command are telling them they can do it.
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Mfc79 Posted on 07/12/2018 09:17

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
Do you have a link to that information bblf?
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Chappy112 Posted on 07/12/2018 09:24

Police knocking people off their mopeds

 
I must be tired, I thought the first word of the title was Pulis 🤣
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laughing Posted on 07/12/2018 09:51

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
We should probably have an adequately funded police force so we can detect and prevent crime without resorting to knocking people of bikes.

This would also reduce crime without as much collateral damage.]

Knocking someone of a moped with no due process seems to be very close to invasive and illegal.
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Small_town Posted on 07/12/2018 10:05

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Invasive to whom? the criminal evading arrest? if so then that's not an issue. Also it IS legal. That's kind of the debate.

I agree with the well funded bit but for where we are at the moment I think it's an excellent tactic and potential deterrent
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bear66 Posted on 07/12/2018 10:10

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
The (peaceful) vigilante groups were the effective ones in reducing moped and motorcycle theft crimes.
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Small_town Posted on 07/12/2018 10:12

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Which peaceful groups are these?
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bear66 Posted on 07/12/2018 10:16
Edited On: 07/12/2018 10:18
Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Read MCN for the last two years. Articles most weeks on motorcycle theft protection. Bit like Motorcycle Neighbourhood Watch.
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Small_town Posted on 07/12/2018 10:18

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Different topic for me. I'm not talking about moped theft. I'm taking about people who commit crimes using mopeds. Muggings and assaults etc.
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bear66 Posted on 07/12/2018 10:23

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
That's different. There is little evidence that any of these moped riders stopped in this way have done much more than theft, no insurance, licence etc. The one where the police office is being investigated was in this category.
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Small_town Posted on 07/12/2018 10:27

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
It's a major problem in London, it's what I hope this tactic will address. I've even witnessed it myself. A little knocking of of a moped as the least they deserve
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bear66 Posted on 07/12/2018 10:30

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
It is, but this tactic will be of very little use in tackling it. Police cars don't roam city centres with the necessary frequency. If they are there, the attack wouldn't happen. 'Bobbies' on the beat in the big cities in numbers that aren't available might have an effect.
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laughing Posted on 07/12/2018 10:35

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Small Town, because someone says it is legal doesn't make it lawful.

My issue is how is the policeman ensuring the moped he is targeting is carrying a criminal?

Does the PC have to witness the crime first hand so he can give chase, or can he depend on a witness statement?

Police do not decide guilt or innocence. We have an assumption of innocence and that is being ignored here.
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MightyDuck Posted on 07/12/2018 11:14

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
I have no problem with the police giving a little scrote a clip.
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Vena Posted on 07/12/2018 11:16

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
There will be loop holes and criminals will begin to exploit this. cat and mouse.

Ie,

What if 2 people are on the bike?

It could be the passenger wants to stop, get off or had no idea that the driver was about to commit a crime.
Meaning There has to be a loop hole to say the police cant ram in this scenario.

Therefore all moped crimes will be done in pairs.

[?]
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Small_town Posted on 07/12/2018 11:45

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
laughing: we don
t actually have an assumption of innocence here. The police are knocking people off their mopeds they are actively pursuing. Not just people they want to stop and search for example. My opinion is, if you are resisting arrest (which running away on a moped should be classed as) then you should expect a forceful reaction to arrest you
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laughing Posted on 07/12/2018 13:05

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Small town the police have to have a reason to stop you. They can't just arrest you.

So what is the antecedent to a policeman being able to ram you in a police car? What is their justification for arrest? did they see the crime being committed, for example?
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bblf Posted on 07/12/2018 15:00

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
https://www-telegraph-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/04/police-officers-use-new-moped-ramming-tactics-face-prosecution/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15441942887781&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2018%2F12%2F04%2Fpolice-officers-use-new-moped-ramming-tactics-face-prosecution%2F

Not sure if this will work mfc79. If not Google the thread title and scroll down to the first article by the daily telegraph.
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bblf Posted on 07/12/2018 15:01

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Haha what a mess.
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Grrreds Posted on 07/12/2018 15:35

Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
>>"Small town the police have to have a reason to stop you. They can't just arrest you."

Driving a motor vehicle on a road is all the reason they need. They can stop any vehicle at any time courtesy of the Road Traffic Act.

They can't just arrest you - agreed.

Don't confuse being 'stopped' and being 'arrested'. Two totally different things.
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Mfc79 Posted on 07/12/2018 15:38
Edited On: 07/12/2018 15:39
Police knocking suspected criminals off their mopeds

 
Laughing, a brief description (without quoting the act verbatim and boring everyone) is that reasonable force can be used to effect or assist in the lawful arrest of an offender, suspected offender or a person unlawfully at large.
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