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1finny Posted on 12/10/2018 08:08
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise
 
 
The minister is on record as saying some families will suffer as a result of the new universal credit proposal

Well, we had to find the money for the judges from somewhere [;)]
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Muttley Posted on 12/10/2018 08:30

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
The spectacle of High Court Judges begging on the streets "will litigate for food" was a disgrace in a so-called modern society.

Hurrah and huzzah for their Lordships.
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BaronSmoggie Posted on 12/10/2018 08:30

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
This is in response to falling recruitment due to pension and pay changes. What else are they supposed to do to entice people to replace those who are hitting retirement?
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bear66 Posted on 12/10/2018 08:32

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Advertise the jobs in NE job centres
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Paul33 Posted on 12/10/2018 08:33

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Maybe they are rewarding the principle you get out of society what you put in.

You really are comparing apples with eggs here.
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RaoulDuke Posted on 12/10/2018 08:44

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
"This is in response to falling recruitment due to pension and pay changes. What else are they supposed to do to entice people to replace those who are hitting retirement?"

Think this is the reality to be fair...and also according to a quick bit of research, it looks to be the high court judges who would be eligible for this, and there are 97 of those in the UK which would be £5.8m. Which whilst it is a lot of money, it's a drop in the ocean when compared to welfare spend.

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Borobarmy Posted on 12/10/2018 08:56

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Ok but make them work weekends and night shifts - won’t half speed up the backlog
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1finny Posted on 12/10/2018 10:52
Edited On: 12/10/2018 10:58
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Paul - i’m not really.
I know there is a recruitment and retention problem with high court judges - my mate is one.
He took the step down financially from a highly paid barrister position for a better quality of life. He now enjoys a good (as opposed to massive) salary and his 13 weeks paid holiday a year.

Now it also sounds really unfair that some ‘deserving’ families, already near to the poverty line, are going to be worse off under universal credit.
John Major has said this could result in a Poll Tax reaction.

It just doesn’t feel right that the conversation about increasing judges salaries by up to a third is happening against this back drop.

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bear66 Posted on 12/10/2018 10:56

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
It's been normal for people to discuss and compare all public service costs.

I don't dispute your argument. But it reflects the huge difference between those who have a comfortable lifestyle and those who do not. At least with 13 weeks a year holiday, there'll be plenty of opportunity to volunteer at food banks and night refuges.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/10/2018 10:57

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
The PM did say austerity was over.
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Pottomed Posted on 12/10/2018 11:12

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
If it bothers you that much, then become a judge.
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bear66 Posted on 12/10/2018 11:16

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
People don't volunteer at food banks for money. Some people are bothered and do something about it. For nothing.
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WoodallServices Posted on 12/10/2018 11:18

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
I'm not sure the P.M could spell austerity!
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Anton_Berg Posted on 12/10/2018 13:55

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
For many years, maybe centuries, it has been accepted that a judge, when appointed, has willingly forsaken the big money they've been making as a QC. This added to the credibility of the judiciary, if that is the right word.
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1finny Posted on 12/10/2018 14:32

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
‘If it bothers you that much then become a judge’ [:D]

What is it with some people? Just can’t have a sensible conversation hiding behind a frickin keyboard.

For the record - I took a decision some time ago not to follow the route to being a judge. And, I’m very happy I did.
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Trug Posted on 12/10/2018 14:46

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
"I know there is a recruitment and retention problem with high court judges"
Isn't £180,000 a year enough to live off?
Possibly- but then there is also a recruitment and retention problem with teachers, nurses, carers and countless other people. They do not get handed pay rises, they need to go on strike before they get a pay rise.
People who are unlucky in life and are ill or disabled, lose their jobs or homes, are told there is no money for them and some literally starve to death or commit suicide.
To award anyone a pay rise with all of this going on is wrong and insensitive, especially when they already receive £180000 a year.
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etmfc Posted on 12/10/2018 15:04

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
More than double the average gross annual income and that's just the pay rise.
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redwurzel Posted on 12/10/2018 16:36

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Its the principle if there is money for groups of people who have to live on very little there is no money for 33% salary rises for any public sector workers.


Its also a restricted job to get into - most people can't afford to work for nothing in the early years unless they are significantly subsidised by their families.
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HolgateCorner Posted on 12/10/2018 18:17

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
The legal profession is a restricted entry gravy train profession.

One of the current issues in this country is that over the years certain jobs and sectors of society have managed to unfairly elevate themselves above the normal rules of reward. The bankers are another typical one.

Some deep seated problems in this country.

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redwurzel Posted on 12/10/2018 18:32

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Banking is a big area HC.

A retail bank manager may earn £40k to £55k, but in the City an investment banker more like £100k to £300k.

The traders tended to earn the biggest money - in his book City Boy - the trader earned £1m in one year (after around 3 years experience)and many others did. The traders were dealing in very big figures every day which was their reason for earning over £1m a year. They said that could regularly earn £50m plus profit for their employer over a year. I would counter that argument that many other people could do the same given the right opportunity.
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kuepper Posted on 12/10/2018 18:34

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Govt guidelines for solicitors rates 8 years ago linked, can't find a current version but the average solicitor will charge at least £250 an hour plus vat and barristers just think of a number. Reduce their charges to comparable expert professions and there wouldn't be a shortage of judges

Link: money for nothing
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Richyboro Posted on 12/10/2018 18:37

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Got to keep the judges happy and onside especially once Universal Credit is rolled out nationally, they are going to be very busy. [|)]
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erimus74 Posted on 12/10/2018 18:38

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
I blame Brexit
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Grrreds Posted on 12/10/2018 18:52
Edited On: 12/10/2018 18:53
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
>>>>>Govt guidelines for solicitors rates 8 years ago linked, can't find a current version but the average solicitor will charge at least £250 an hour plus vat and barristers just think of a number.

Yes, maybe....... for private payers/non legal aid work.

This does not apply to legal aid work which is governed by 'fixed fees'. This covers the vast majority of criminal work for both solicitors and barristers (certainly in areas like Teesside). Criminal lawyers do not earn the 'vast' amounts many people think they do.
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billyzin Posted on 12/10/2018 18:55

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
I see the usual suspects are here, defending the indefensible once again.
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borobuddah Posted on 12/10/2018 19:20

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
All this while those on universal credit and the rest of us mugs are told our hard work has paid off and austerity is therefore over. Over for who?
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HolgateCorner Posted on 12/10/2018 19:35

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Redwurzel - I’m talking about the top end bankers - and there are plenty of them - getting ridiculous money for simply taking a cut, they are not wealth creators, they are parisites being allowed to take far too much for whatever ‘service’ they provide society.

My other pet hate just now is chief execs and deputies at local authorities - far too much money involved in what they do, which is, by and large, wasting tax payers money.
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Paul33 Posted on 12/10/2018 19:59

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
It's difficul when we are comparing a large group of diverse people those on universal credit to specific professions I.e. Judges, bankers etc.

Let's imagine you have someone on universal credit has never worked never attempted to work and just been a drain on society and comparing that persons situation to that of a judge who has probably studied for six years minimum. As I said earlier its comparing apples with eggs. So what some professions are paid well - you can always do something about it rather than moan on here.
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sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 12/10/2018 20:27

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
bit dodgy when the justice systems on its XXXXXX though paul eh?

Barristers and Judges should be well paid. Its a very difficult and important job and should come with its rewards. And if you are a good one you will be working ridiculous hours and will be constantly on call.

With the Justice system the shambles that it is currently, the money could be more wisely invested elsewhere. Spending the money on coppers would be a much better investment for example, or paying for trainers so that they are trained to do their job properly, or perhaps they could set up a forensic lab to deal with the ridiculous amount of extra data the police have to sift through with the advent of the smart phone. (There has already been a change in the way barristers are paid for reviewing this data they'll get a bunch more cash than they used to I should imagine). etc. etc.

And if there aren't enough Judges due to the pay being XXXXXX and morale being low - do what we do for every other role. Import them. And just damn them for racists if they complain about it!
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borobuddah Posted on 12/10/2018 20:41

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Constantly on call for a handsome fee sheriff?
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Grrreds Posted on 12/10/2018 20:51

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
The “handsome fee” to which you refer varies from area to area. For Teesside it is £149.

That could be a case which takes the best part of all day or across a weekend. It could be a 3am call out. It could be and very often is, for something where someone could be looking at spending a considerable time in prison.

You may think £149 is handsome, you might think it is about right or you might think it is too low. Whatever you think that’s what it is.
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Clingon33 Posted on 12/10/2018 21:00
Edited On: 12/10/2018 21:50
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
So the people who should be at most risk from losing their jobs to computer intelligence get a wage rise... They should be lining up in a future minded dole queue for a place on one of Elons space ships.
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Clingon33 Posted on 12/10/2018 21:08
Edited On: 12/10/2018 21:20
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Don't mind me bad day at work in the town watching skint people struggle. The Saxon is slow to stir and all that.
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CiscoKid Posted on 12/10/2018 21:12

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
"So the people who should be at most risk from losing their jobs to computer intelligence get a wage rise..."

You think judges are going to be replaced by computers? You do know Judge Dredd is a movie?
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Clingon33 Posted on 12/10/2018 21:18

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Yes and Yes I do. Fk me your good.
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Pottomed Posted on 12/10/2018 21:23

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
What is Jordan Rhodes salary?
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sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 12/10/2018 21:31

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Judges are paid £150 on Teesside? Or are we talking jobbing barrister?


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Grrreds Posted on 12/10/2018 21:37

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
That was in response to the comment about being 'handsomely' paid for being on call out.

Call outs are to the police station and that is the fee for a call to Middlesbrough Police Station. Shoplifting or murder or anything in between.

Legal aid is 99 percent 'fixed fee' work. Police Station, Mags Court, Crown Court, Solcitor, Barrister the lot.

Obviously if someone is charged to court further fees can be claimed but the £149 I quoted was in response to the misinformed 'handsomely rewarded for being on call' quip.
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Clingon33 Posted on 12/10/2018 23:02
Edited On: 12/10/2018 23:07
Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Hardship post alert above. Just take take stock and remain calm.
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mikkelbecksmum Posted on 13/10/2018 02:15

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
How many judges are there? A drop in the ocean x
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Nero Posted on 13/10/2018 10:13

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
"The Legal Profession is a Gravy Train"

Hardly. I suggest to read the Secret Barrister book to learn a bit before you make those comments.

Criminal Justice has been hammered by the Tories in the past ten years.
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sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 13/10/2018 14:57

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Theres always an awful lot of moaning from young barristers about the fees they receive. It's a load of tosh. It's a very lucrative profession. And so it should be.
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redwurzel Posted on 13/10/2018 17:34

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Paul33 - I believe over 50% on Universal Credit are working and certainly most have worked. Of the rest many will have long term medical health issues/disabilities that employers are not willing to accept (but don't admit that). Others have young children and no partner. People who don't try for work without a very good reason are sanctioned. No one is comparing the work of judges and those needing the claim welfare support - its the principle if there is less money for welfare because of the state of public finances there is less for other recepitants of public money.
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bear66 Posted on 13/10/2018 19:11

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
The 1,000,000 households that stand to lose £2,800 per year are all working households.
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 13/10/2018 19:31

Welfare Cuts but judges to get up to £60k pay rise

 
Agree Nero. They have suffered massive cuts. Court rooms also require repairs. Cases delay due to lack of Judges and safe court rooms.
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