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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 13/06/2018 12:36
What would you class a succes/failure for England
 
 
In this World Cup?

Success - quarter finals

Failure - group stage.

About right - 2nd round.
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bear66 Posted on 13/06/2018 12:37

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Sounds about right
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Torino Posted on 13/06/2018 12:39

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
That pretty much

Southgate will have done a good job and will deserve another 2 years if he gets them to the quarters for me
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BoroBen92 Posted on 13/06/2018 12:40

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Probably that.
Actually winning a knockout match would be an achievement with our history.

Not won one since 2006, and only won 6 ever.
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Ticker_Tape Posted on 13/06/2018 12:46

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Win it = successful
Runners up = Good tournament
Semi final = decent

Out at QF = failed
Out at Group = Disaster.
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Tacker Posted on 13/06/2018 12:47

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Hard to gauge in stages I feel. We've churned out average performances in the past and got through to the Quarters. Joey Barton was saying we have to get through the group stages "in style" which I do agree with in a certain way.
I don't mean flouncing teams 4-0 and 70% possession and 15 shots on targets, I'd just like to see confidence, players knowing where they need to be and showing some determination to do so.

There is zero pressure on this group of lads and I hope they carry the ethos from younger age groups through with them. As said elsewhere, only 4 members of the squad were at the last WC.
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Decent_Left Posted on 13/06/2018 12:48

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I agree, would settle for winning at least one knockout stage game
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oncearedalwaysared Posted on 13/06/2018 12:50

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I'd offer something a little more subjective than an actual 'position' or 'round', Exiled.

I'd like to see the team have a 'real go' and play with passion and purpose and without fear.

However, we should reach QFs - and that is a success in my book.

I fully expect us to beat either Poland/Columbia/Senegal/Japan in L16 (who we will face regardless of 1st or 2nd in group).

I suspect, we'll get beat by Brazil in QFs if we win group, or Germany in QFs if we're 2nd in group.

BUT.... if we do play without fear and with passion, who knows what can happen in QFs...!!!!!!
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ExFootyLegs Posted on 13/06/2018 12:59

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Ticker tape deluded as per...

QF's would be a success but then it depends on who we play...if Morocco knock us out at the QF stage then that would be deemed a failure...
It Brazil knock us out perhaps a success.
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atypical_boro Posted on 13/06/2018 13:02

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
If we go out in the second round, given who it would be against, I think that would be failure.

Quarter-finals the minimum for me, but I do think anything beyond that would be a huge achievement.

I would say the 'about right' is getting slaughtered in the quarter-finals. 'Doing ok' and going out on penalties would probably result in comments like 'we did quite well' and 'we were unlucky'.

Going out in the group stage when our first two games are against footballing minnows would be unforgiveable.

Second round and going out to Poland (first world cup for 12 years), Japan or Senegal would be a disaster, even Colombia should be seen as failure.

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Ticker_Tape Posted on 13/06/2018 13:07

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Not deluded, he asked me what I considered success or failure. So I told him.

What you criteria is I don' know, I would imagine you thought the Boro were brilliant and successful last season.
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DoomOnHorseback Posted on 13/06/2018 13:10

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I'd also be happy with a knock out stage win. I'd not put a lot of money on us beating Colombia though. We'd be expected to beat any of the four teams mentioned, but on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if any of them were to turn us over.
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newyddion Posted on 13/06/2018 13:12

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
finish 1st in group: failure
finish 2nd in the group: success
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FrozenHorse Posted on 13/06/2018 21:56

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Semi: excellent
Quarters: good
2nd round: ok, but I’d be a little disappointed.

We can’t tell ourselves that we’re not very good, but that we have to win it to count as success.
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Indeedido Posted on 13/06/2018 22:04

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Pretty much agree with Exiled and FH.

I'd be delighted beyond QF.
Happy at QF
I'd be pretty disappointed if we went out in R2.
I will be gutted if we go out in the Group.

I am really looking forward to it.
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exeterboro Posted on 13/06/2018 22:09

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Success = winning it
Failure = anything else
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sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 13/06/2018 22:14

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I don't agree with barton.
You dont need style. You just need to win. Theres been plenty of teams who have played XXXXXXe all the way to the final. Play well in a couple of games scrap through the rest.

England just need to go out well. Maybes play well, have a goal ruled out unjustly with VAR, go down to 10 men and eventually get beat by ronaldo scoring a dodgy pen, then we'll all be happpy.
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superstu Posted on 13/06/2018 22:32

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Hammer Panama and get through the first knockout match [^]
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Hercules Posted on 13/06/2018 22:53

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Given the draw, the quarter finals should be a realistic aim.

Getting out of the group is a must with Tunisia & Panama in there. However I don’t think we are much stronger than whoever we’re likely to face from group H so wouldn’t be surprised if we went out in the second round.
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istanbul Posted on 13/06/2018 22:58

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I really wouldn't underestimate Tunisia and wouldn't at be surprised if they managed a draw with us.

I think of all the African teams in Russia, they're the trickiest.
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xBoro_Scallyx Posted on 14/06/2018 01:51

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
What makes you think Tunisia are "trickier" than Nigeria, Senegal, Morocco etc?

They're the worst African team at the World Cup this year.
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istanbul Posted on 14/06/2018 02:25
Edited On: 14/06/2018 02:28
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I watched some of their recent games against Portugal (2-2), Turkey (2-2) and Spain (0-1) and was quite impressed with their set-up and attitude. Played some fluid counter-attacking football with great pace, particularly against Spain in the first half they suggested to me that they're not to be underestimated and can certainly harm if we switch off, get sloppy, concede possession and don't nullify their wide players. Finishing wasn't always on point, but their main forward wasn't playing. I think he's due to play against us though. A young lad called Skhiri stood out, another called Badri too. That said, they are missing their best player who is absent through injury.

What makes you think they're the worst African team in the WC this year considering they're best ranked African side in Russia?
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 07:38

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Quite true Tunisia are the highest ranked African side.

The ranking system is far from perfect, but they’re a whopping 27 places higher than Nigeria, which does indicates their performances have been considerably better.
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Abel_Tasman Posted on 14/06/2018 07:48

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Boro Ben we've won more than 6 knockout matches.

3 in 1966

1 in 1986

2 in 1990

1 in 2002

1 in 2006

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BoroBen92 Posted on 14/06/2018 07:52
Edited On: 14/06/2018 07:54
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I apologise, it was 6 tournament knockout wins since 1966, not ever.

Got a win at the 96 Euros too.
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SimonDavidWilliamson Posted on 14/06/2018 07:53

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
anything less than QF is a disaster for me, the route pretty open to get there for once
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Hercules Posted on 14/06/2018 08:29

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I think it’s quite arrogant, although not uncommon in England, to adopt that attitude.

Yes we are a better team than Colombia and Poland. But not by much. If we got beat by them it would be disappointing but, depending on the manner of the defeat, not necessarily a disaster.
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Anton_Berg Posted on 14/06/2018 08:39

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Lose only to a rated side i.e. with players we've heard of.
Avoid media set-ups.
No-one gets arrested.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 08:51
Edited On: 14/06/2018 08:57
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
"If we got beat by them it would be disappointing but, depending on the manner of the defeat, not necessarily a disaster."

Poland haven't made it past the group stage of a world cup since 1986, and haven't even qualified since 2006.

Colombia have qualified for one WC in the last 20 years (where they did well), but other than that had not got past the group stage since 1990.

I appreciate you're trying to evaluate expectation based on England's tendency of failing to deliver, but both those sides should be fearing England not the other way round.

No excuses for England not getting to the QF.

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coluka Posted on 14/06/2018 09:11

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Agree with Exiled
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atomicloonybin Posted on 14/06/2018 09:26

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Making the third group game irrelevant by winning the first two games with decent goal difference. I've got a feeling though that we'll get tripped up by one of them. After that, you just need a couple of lucky bounces and the semis would be there. It'd be nice to see a win in a knockout game against a team ranked above us.
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Mansize_Rooster Posted on 14/06/2018 09:52

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Southgate is in charge so success for me would be to win a single match.

That’s all I’m saying

Mansize
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Mansize_Rooster Posted on 14/06/2018 09:52

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Southgate is in charge so success for me would be to win a single match.

That’s all I’m saying

Mansize
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GraftLikeNegredo Posted on 14/06/2018 09:53

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
England are 12th in the FIFA World Rankings, so the last 16 is par, anything better than that is therefore a success surely?
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 09:56

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
“England are 12th in the FIFA World Rankings, so the last 16 is par, anything better than that is therefore a success surely?”

That makes 2nd round par
Success is better than par.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 09:59

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
"England are 12th in the FIFA World Rankings, so the last 16 is par, anything better than that is therefore a success surely?"

Well Colombia are below us, Japan and Senegal are much further down.

Poland are above us, but lord knows how.

So I don't think FIFA rankings should really dictate success/failure.
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GraftLikeNegredo Posted on 14/06/2018 09:59

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
The last 16 is the second round
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 10:00

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
“Poland are above us, but lord knows how.”

By winning a lot of matches?
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:01

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
"By winning a lot of matches?"

Friendlies? Our world cup qualification results were very similar, us edging it.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:05

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Further insight, which I'd forgotten about.

Link: All a bit dodgy really
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 10:06

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Euro results still count; they won 3 matches there; we won one.
The ranking system gives more points for finals wins.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:08

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Yeah, so a penalty shootout victory over Switzerland is probably what puts them above us. Fair enough I suppose, but IMHO friendlies shouldn't count anyway.

Regardless, we should beat Poland and losing to them would be a big failure imho.
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 10:16
Edited On: 14/06/2018 10:24
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
It’s more impressive than losing to Iceland; they won 2 games in the groups stage to our one also, so will have hot more points there.

A win on penalties (I think) also gives slightly fewer points than a win in open play. However, I think a defeat on pens also gets a few points and they did go out on pens in the quarter final.

Agree about the friendlies; they have announced a change to the system regarding that this week.

However, Poland’s recent record is slightly better than ours, so it’s right they’re slightly above us in the rankings.
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/06/2018 10:30

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
On a separate note, why are Russia opening the tournament today, why is it not Germany? Always thought it was the previous winners, has that changed?
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:33

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
It changed in 2006 EIH, when Germany hosted it.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 10:35

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Yeah I agree with your OP exiled. We 'should' get through the group but in the second round we're probably gonna play Colombia/Poland/Senegal teams that are probably on par with us.

We've got no divine right to think we'll turn a team like those over, I think it would be a toss of a coin whether we get beyond the second round and that's if we play well.

If we play one of the big guns in the quarter final we'd be massive underdogs, for example I think we could play Brazil 10 times and probably only beat them once in 10. It's not impossible but very unlikely.

I think Southgate has done and said everything right in the build up so far, the media seem to be very impressed but we've still got to get results. A nil nil or scrappy one nil win over Tunisia and the same negativity will be back again.

I expect a very tough game against Tunisia, they are ranked as the best team in Africa and they won't be a push over despite what some people think, we should beat Panama then Belgium will be a tough game. I think we'll scrape through the group and lose narrowly to Colombia in the second round.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:38

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Do people really think Senegal are 'on a par' with us? Its their second world cup.
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/06/2018 10:38

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Shows how much I pay attention then, this is possibly the worst game of the whole tournament so probably a good thing to get it out of the wy.
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 10:42

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I usually want the hosts to do well for the sake of the tournament.

However part of me would love to see the Russians turned over.

I don’t think they’re very good, but their ranking is also misleading: not playing qualifiers is a disadvantage in that sense.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 10:42

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
In some ways its an excuse to take interest in it, cos if it wasn't the opener it would receive none.
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/06/2018 10:47

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Any fixture can produce moments of high quality or drama

I seem to recall the Saudis scored the best goal of USA 94?
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/06/2018 10:52

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I understand that Fh, it just doesn't jump out at you to be a classic. Hoping for a saudi win anyways.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 12:20

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
"Do people really think Senegal are 'on a par' with us? "

Atypical - I don't think we should expect to roll a team like Senegal over easily they've got Mane from Liverpool, Keita Balde from Monaco who's had a great season, Koulibaly from Napoli who'd walk into our team and a number of other players playing in the Premier league and France.

If they get through a group with Colombia and Poland then I'd say yes they're a similar level to us.

I think the mistake people make nowadays is look at the country rather than the actual players, people look at a team like Senegal and think it'll be easy. When you look at their team they've got some real fire power.

There won't be any Micky mouse teams that get through to the knock out stages.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 12:25

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Hamster - I'm not saying I expect them to rollover, they'll be playing out of their skins and to their maximum potential, just like our players will be if the manager is able to motivate them appropriately.

But we should absolutely expect to beat them, by hook or by crook.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 12:30

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
My point was that the teams that finish 1 and 2 in that group will be a similar level to us, without being negative that's what I genuinely believe.

If we are being positive then yes we have a great chance of beating a team like Colombia or Senegal but are we that much better than them? I don't think we are.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 12:30
Edited On: 14/06/2018 12:35
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Double post
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Cecil_J_Mctumshie Posted on 14/06/2018 12:36

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Success-win cup
Anything else failure
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 12:38

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Well as I said, this is the second time Senegal have qualified in their history.

I can't say I'm on board with the idea that we're no better than them as a footballing nation. For all our failures, we've failed to qualify once since the 70s and are former winners. And we are currently 15 places above them in the rankings, if thats anything to go off. And we have players who are as good as Mane (Sterling/Kane etc).
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 12:42

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I don't think history has any real relevance to what happens at this tournament.

If it did Holland and Italy would be here.
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 12:44
Edited On: 14/06/2018 12:45
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
If history has no real relevance, who are your tips to do well and why?
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Chappy112 Posted on 14/06/2018 12:44

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Depends on who we play and how we play.

If we get to the quarter finals by playing knock overs then that's not really a success is it? But if we get to the semi's having likely had to beat Germany or Brazil in the quarters then that's a huge success.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 12:45

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
My tips to do well are Brazil and Germany but that's nowt to do with Pele and Gerd Muller [;)]
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Ironops Posted on 14/06/2018 12:47

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I expect us to get through the group stage

If we beat Colombia or Poland in the next round then great - if not fair enough

We wont go beyond quarters though
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/06/2018 12:48

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Your tipsto do well are the 2 favs hamster? Were did you pull them from [cr]
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 12:48

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I see.

We'll have to agree to disagree, if we go out to Senegal in the second round the knives will be out for Southgate and, IMHO, it would be fair.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 14/06/2018 12:49

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
With our track record a quarter final slot would be a success. Won 6 knock out games in our World Cup finals history.
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Lefty Posted on 14/06/2018 12:49

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
As per the OP

Success - quarter finals

Failure - group stage.

About right - 2nd round.

If we get out of the group don't we meet either Brazil or Germany in the quarters most likely, should we get that far?
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wombledon Posted on 14/06/2018 12:58

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
It's really irrelevant whether or not we're on par with Senegal, the discussion should be around are we good enough to beat:

Tunisia
Panama
Belgium
Poland/Colombia
Germany/Brazil

History may not matter so much, but after Euro16 it's obvious most fans have a lot of pessimism of our chances.

Group stage exit has to be deemed a failure. Reaching a quarter-final has to be seen as progression. I wouldn't want to call it a success, as success should be winning the tournament.

I want to see an England side that produces some good attacking football and actually looks like a team.

We're a young side and I think we have a lot of potential through the age groups to achieve something soon.





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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 13:03

What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
I've tipped the best two teams why is that a shock, realistically there's probably only Brazil, Germany, France, Spain and Argentina that could win it.

I don't think Argentina are good enough defensively but they have Messi so who knows. Spain have the problem with the manager situation and I suspect France might lack a bit of experience.

Can anyone see any other teams apart from the ones I mentioned winning it?

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atypical_boro Posted on 14/06/2018 13:12
Edited On: 14/06/2018 13:13
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
"Can anyone see any other teams apart from the ones I mentioned winning it?"

If all the 'big' teams implode, Belgium or maybe even Croatia might have a slight chance, but I agree I wouldn't look past those 5 really.

Oh and can't completely write off any team with Ronaldo in it.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/06/2018 13:19
Edited On: 14/06/2018 13:20
What would you class a succes/failure for England

 
Belgium and Portugal would be the most likely after the five teams I've mentioned.

To be honest I think Belgium are as likely as any to implode, you've basically got two different nationalities playing for them so getting a united dressing room with them is very tough.

Portugal have Ronaldo and a few other good players but I think the last 8 will be as far as they get.

In response to the question of what will be classed as progress, I think getting out of the group will be progress because we couldn't do that 4 years ago.
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