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Parkys_Centre_Parting Posted on 06/12/2017 14:01
The Brexit Impact Assessments
 
 
You know, the ones that the Brexit Minister himself claimed would damage our negotiating position with the EU, should they be published.

Them ones.

Well, he's just admitted that they don't exist and never have. Therefore not only has he been lying to Parliament and the country, he's also admitting that our government has made no efforts to properly look into the impacts of this decision.

Brilliant, it gets better everyday. [sad][rle]
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FartingGnome Posted on 06/12/2017 14:06

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
In a sane and rational society the impact assessments would have been done before it was put to a referendum.

But lunacy and chaos is the order of the day.

"Get over it" would appear to be the answer.
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Steer Posted on 06/12/2017 14:07

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
But this is the peoples choice. Anyone who thinks this is silly are part of the electorate that "lost", so should get over it and stop pointing out the obvious utter shambles that this has become.
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sasboro1 Posted on 06/12/2017 14:18
Edited On: 06/12/2017 14:22
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
this is our demcracy in action, MPs can say and do what they want with no accountablity to tell the truth. Its all a big game to outmaneuver everyone else. its is there duty to discuss the real facts and make the best decision for the country and people. you know, the people who voted them in and paying their wages

its clear that the only solution is to accept being part of the customs union or single market. there was no detail on teh referndum explaing how leaving the EU would be. it was a binary referendum, which has many possible outcomes. and those right wing brexitiers need to wind their necks in otherwise they end up with corbyn coming in which will be even further removed than what the right wing brexitiers wanted.
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RaoulDuke Posted on 06/12/2017 14:20

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
How he can still be in a job??

Personally, i think they DO exist, but they don't show a favourable outcome so can't be shared. But either way he's lied.
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 06/12/2017 14:21

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Im still in the out camp but cant believe the useless XXXXXXs in charge cant even do any proper ground work.

We might be better recinding A50 and invoke it in a few years now we have an idea of all the work that is required to make it work.
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Borocelt Posted on 06/12/2017 14:31

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Not only is it absolute lunacy, but he has lied to parliament about it, repeatedly.

If that isn't treating parliament, and his job with contempt, then i really don't know what is.
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festa5 Posted on 06/12/2017 14:39

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Can't believe he's lied about it. So far the man has shown even less imagination than his parents evidently had.

He's the comical Ali of the brexit negotiations.
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coluka Posted on 06/12/2017 14:40

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I totally agree with Raoul
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Ironops Posted on 06/12/2017 14:44

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Brexit committee will report to the Speaker on his testimony and Speaker will decide if he is in contempt of Parliament - if so he could be suspended as an MP

DD has increasingly looked like a man losing his grip. last week he threatened to resign if Damian Greene was fired for cracking one off in his office, this week the whole DUP shambles and yesterday saying could effectively remain in something like the customs union (only not called the customs union), today lying to parliament. He's losing it.
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1finny Posted on 06/12/2017 14:45

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
It’s the panto season

‘The impact assessments exist’

‘Ohhhhh, no they don’t’

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Lefty Posted on 06/12/2017 14:46
Edited On: 06/12/2017 18:10
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
If you listen very carefully there is a vague noise of 17.4 million pennies ever so slightly on the move.

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captain5 Posted on 06/12/2017 14:50

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Even if he hasn't explicitly lied about it, he has deliberately misled Parliament about it.

All the FOI requests to his department state Impact Assessments.

He has talked about them having excruciating detail.

We now hear that they have no economic impact assessments as Davis doesn't like economic models.

This afternoon we find that the Cabinet haven't even had a specific discussion about what we want as the end state.
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sasboro1 Posted on 06/12/2017 14:52

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
to think that the government pushed hard wanting parliament not involved and everything kept secret
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foomanboro Posted on 06/12/2017 15:34
Edited On: 06/12/2017 16:40
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
There are 2 possible reasons as to why the assessments were never done:-

1) They knew the assessment would have forecasted a negative economic scenario on brexit and government didn’t want to answer any uncomfortable questions that would come with it
2) This is a lack of due dillengence by the brexit team when it came to assessing the true risk.

Either scenario is unforgivable and DD should be sacked for either lying or being incompetent.
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captain5 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:38

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
One of his Civil Servants followed him in giving evidence today.

They'd done nothing more than look for things already in the public domain and have spent the last 3 weeks trying to flesh them out and put them in some sort of order.
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captain5 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:42

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
We need someone like this guy to bring the current government to heel to stop them acting in the same ways he highlights previous governments have acted.

Link: "deceit was used to sway a sceptical population"
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lapennabianca Posted on 06/12/2017 15:44

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Hammond today has also confirmed that the cabinet don't know/can't agree/will never agree on what kind of Brexit they want.

They've started the process with no due diligence, no understanding of the process itself and have, throughout, boasted and lied then capitulated. All the while blaming the EU for taking a position and sticking to it.
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MightyDuck Posted on 06/12/2017 15:44

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
without knowing the settlement figure or the trade deal terms, how could there be an assessment on it?
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captain5 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:49

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Well, they are either ready for talks on trade (what they call Phase 2) or they aren't.

This is the Chancellor saying they haven't had discussions on it.

Which is it?
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:50

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
The purpose of an assessment would be to understand the impact of the possible end-game situations. That then sets the determination for getting "the best possible deal for Britain".

Some Brexiters yesterday demanding we walk away now (on WTO terms). If we knew it was or wasn't a good option, we could make that decision, or not, on an informed basis.

Doing assessments on the hoof as negotiations take place is not the way to do things.
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jam69 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:50

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I think they were done and do exist, or should I say did, once they were forced to disclose I think they filed them with the establishment child abuse files.
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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2017 15:55

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
From the Beeb website:

"Second his suggestion that he doesn't have the resources for this, and anyway some of the work his officials have done wasn't much good, is hardly a ringing endorsement of his Brexit department."



Link: Link
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Ziggy Posted on 06/12/2017 16:00

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I watched Davis and the Permanent Secretary for his department. Davis looked like he would rather be anywhere than in that chair.
The Permanent Secretary' testimony was like a semi baffling episode of ' Yes Minister '

This guy caught the drift perfectly


Link: Link
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Boromart Posted on 06/12/2017 16:37

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Either he hasn't commissioned any impact assessments, and therefore his position is untenable as an MP as it's gross dereliction of duty.

OR

He is once again lying and the impact assessments show the weak position of the British Governments negotiating position and the devastating impact that Brexit will have for most, in which case his position is untenable for refusing to provide the information to parliament that he has been ordered to, and for deceiving the British public with information that MUST be released to public domain, due to the wide reaching impacts.

In other words fück off Davies, you are clueless or corrupt
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FartingGnome Posted on 06/12/2017 16:43

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I'd say both
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foomanboro Posted on 06/12/2017 16:45
Edited On: 06/12/2017 18:14
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
The one good thing about Brexit is knowing the sleepless nights and stress it causing people like DD who pushed so hard for us to leave the EU. They got exactly what they deserved for their irresponsible lies.

It’s a shame he was only one of the few who were left to clean up the mess they created.
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sasboro1 Posted on 06/12/2017 17:23
Edited On: 06/12/2017 17:27
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
david davis(and theresa may) probably hoped that a deal would be done before david davis ran out of lies on these assessments. i think he was gambling on they would be forgotten about and become irrelevant if we agreed a good brexit deal with the EU by now and ready to begin trade talks. he couldnt stall/bluff it any longer.

seems the governments tactics on all this is to stall and leave everything until the last minute hoping that pressure is too much for others and they agree with no time left to change things
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Lefty Posted on 06/12/2017 18:10
Edited On: 06/12/2017 18:12
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
This IS what 17,410,742 people voted for.

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chickenrunner Posted on 06/12/2017 18:19

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Leave or remain is irrelevant I think everyone can agree this is an absolute shambles.
The real funny thing is that Farage, Gove, Johnson and the rest of the ghastly gang can stamp their feet and draw all the red lines they like because the Labour Party are just licking their lips waiting in the wings. Then they will have something to squeal about.
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sasboro1 Posted on 06/12/2017 18:25

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Farage kept his head down apart from when he's been worried about his MEP pension. I'm surprised he's not in the European parliament fighting the corner for the EU or going around the UK promising the car workers, farmers fish processors in Grimsby that Brexit will be better for them
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Kosovo Posted on 06/12/2017 18:31

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
IS it really.
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dooderooni Posted on 06/12/2017 19:35

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
If David Davis is thinking of playing poker with the EU then he'd better make sure he's packed plenty of shirts.

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Lefty Posted on 06/12/2017 20:21

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
'IS it really.'

Yes.

What Leavers voted for, since there was no agreed, detailed plan, no end vision just brexit means brexit and a promise of all things to all men having cake and eat it, is whatever the fcuk you get. It is THAT that makes every person who voted Leave utterly stupid I'm afraid.
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Kosovo Posted on 06/12/2017 21:00

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
No. We voted to leave the EU. The shambles that's now unfolding is being caused by a government that are making mistakes after mistakes. No one told the government/parliament when to trigger a50 or to have no planning towards the end goal before they did. Get some real leaves in charge and not the these fools who really want stay in.
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Quality Posted on 06/12/2017 21:21
Edited On: 06/12/2017 21:24
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Sick to death of whingers and moaners like Lefty constantly banging on about the stupidity of those who chose to vote Leave.

Like a worn out record, the poor lamb didn't get his way so can't handle the fact that others thought and voted differently, without resorting to the default position of the hard of thinking. All remainers are intelligent and all leavers not so. Don't make me laugh.

He has previous on this count, having had to apologise for a similar slur to a fellow poster on here.

Boo hoo. [^]
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big-eggo Posted on 06/12/2017 21:36

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
There was only one political party that held a united view that the UK should leave the EU. The sensible heads in all the major parties wanted a Remain outcome.

So you are left with Forages UKIP. Personally I don't they could negotiate a zebra crossing.

Now the majority clearly see this is turning into a complete cluster fvck. They are seeing the complexity of the task and the UK does not have the clout that they thought it had.
They see that financial hardship is the price of brexit and that there is no promised land of plenty that those elder berexiteers were sold on. Most of those voters will not live long enough to see the UK recover financially given that many respectable minds forecast that this country could take 20 years to right itself.

At the moment we really are digging a hole in the wrong place and nobody is prepared to give the order that we should stop digging, for fear that they might become unpopular and lose their career.
UK - SNAFU
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RedSteptoe Posted on 06/12/2017 21:45

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Its happening , deal with it, go on with your lifes a stop being so spineless , pack of tarts
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foomanboro Posted on 06/12/2017 22:05

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
“Its happening , deal with it, go on with your lifes a stop being so spineless , pack of tarts”

How original
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big-eggo Posted on 06/12/2017 22:18

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Get yourself down to London Steptoe. They are rapidly running out of ideas and could do with your constructive input.
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rayban Posted on 06/12/2017 22:28

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
You would never want to toss a coin with a Remainer. Heads or tails? Heads. Brexiteer.
"I WIN". No says Remainer, "Its best of three, EU rules apply.
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foomanboro Posted on 06/12/2017 22:41

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
We doing jokes now? Ok then...

How to you make a leaver believe absolutely anything you want?

Write it on the side of fcuking bus.

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bear66 Posted on 06/12/2017 22:43

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Cameron tossed a coin and the UK has lost. The UK is every one of us.
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littlejimmy Posted on 06/12/2017 22:43

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
"It's happening".

What is? Does anyone actually know what the XXXXXX is happening? Can anyone, hand on heart, tell us all what is happening and how it's all going to end up?
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jam69 Posted on 06/12/2017 22:50

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Don't look here, look over there [^]
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sasboro1 Posted on 06/12/2017 22:52

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
"Its happening , deal with it, go on with your lifes a stop being so spineless , pack of tarts"

welcome to fmttm Jacob Rees-Mogg[8)]
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zaphod Posted on 06/12/2017 22:59

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I'm of the opinion that the Davis is playing with words. There are no "impact assessments" because they called them something else, maybe "sectoral analyses". I'm sure the EU has done its homework and has worked out in detail the economic impact of various scenarios, both for the UK & the EU. It would be negligent for them not to do so.

The EU knows that the economic impact of Brexit on the UK is far greater than on any EU member except possibly for Ireland. They're playing hardball because they hold all the cards. May & Davis's incompetence doesn't really matter because they are negotiating from a position of such weakness that even the most competent negotiators would get a lousy deal.
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Starbuck Posted on 06/12/2017 23:19

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
EU happy to play hardball because the people of UK lose but most of all the Tory party are shattered by this.
EU even prepared to risk unrest in NI / Ireland to stamp their authority

This Referendum was the most divisive thing that has ever happened to the UK and will take generations to put behind us. Tragic
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Lefty Posted on 06/12/2017 23:49

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Although I disagree with people who wanted to leave the EU, as I think on balance it is a pretty good thing, I don't think people are STUPID for wanting to leave the EU, just wrong. There are valid criticisms of the EU, without doubt.

However anyone who VOTED Leave in the referendum most definitely was stupid. There is a difference. You didn't know what you were voting FOR. There was no agreed plan because it wasn't in the interest of the various Leave campaigns to come together and present one. They knew they wouldn't have won the vote without appealing to wishful thinking of those affected by quite diversely motivated reasoning, so they could not expose any sort of plan to rigorous scrutiny.

What you voted for is what ever the fcuk you get. If there had been a plan, not especially in detail but in broad outline, presented to the electorate that in the event of a win that would be the aim for the govt to try to deliver, then I would have some sympathy that this Government's incompetence was letting you down.

It is one thing to know you don't like something, though some of the things the EU are criticised for are nonsense, but it is clear crass stupidity not to think that it isn't possible for an alternative to be even worse. It's like eating the same quite nice meal of sunday lunch every day and being offered an alternative hidden under a silver server cover to swap to. It might be a michelin star standard dish, but it could also be dog turd pie. If you can't see what's under the cover before making the decision you are unequivocally stupid. There is no argument.

So stop bitching, you won, get over it.
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Lefty Posted on 06/12/2017 23:56

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
'I'm sure the EU has done its homework and has worked out in detail the economic impact of various scenarios, both for the UK & the EU. It would be negligent for them not to do so.'

Indeed it has. Would you like to see them, Zaphod?

'The European Parliament has commissioned dozens of impact assessments or studies on Brexit from experts, across a broad range of policy areas, which are publicly available online'

Quite a contrast to our own approach, don't you think?






Link: Nasty enemy of democracy, the EU
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/12/2017 00:08

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Lefty,

It's impossible to outline what you are voting for when the Leave group and the EU are both presenting a situation that has never happened before and where the criteria was so vague.

I voted leave and will be classed as well educated. I think long term we'll be better off out. I didn't expect it to be hunky dory in the short term. I did expect the government to be doing a better job than the shambles they are doing.
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sasboro1 Posted on 07/12/2017 00:21
Edited On: 07/12/2017 00:29
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
" May & Davis's incompetence doesn't really matter because they are negotiating from a position of such weakness that even the most competent negotiators would get a lousy deal. "

i dont even think we are really negotiating. its all playing up the Uk audience. We (brexit government) know fine well what we will end up paying. david davis proves its all hot air to play to the brexit crowd.im sure privately he knows its not a real negotiation as he hasnt put any effort in.
hammond has said we will pay the bill no matter what. and its only a matter of time before its decided we will be in the custom union so that we dont have any hard border between ireland/northern ireland and northern ireland have the same condition as rest of the uk. all that needs sorting out are the brexit tory MPs. but once they realise that if it falls apart then that could end up with corbyn getting in. so at some point they will back off. in the meantime theresa may will go down all avenues which lead to deadlocks/deadends. which will eventually lead to us being in the customs union


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Lefty Posted on 07/12/2017 02:23

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants

I don't care how generally intelligent you are or how well educated. When people call you stupid it is in the context of the decision you made, not as a general put down.

I know many highly intelligent people who are capable of some very stupid things. I am certainly guilty of having been stupid on many occasions and will continue to be regularly in the future I am quite sure.

Yet tell a brexiter he is stupid and he has an absolute hissy fit and accuses us of arrogance.

Now just think on that for one minute. Who is the arrogant one, us for suggesting this is an occasion where you've made that stupid decision or the brexiter that is apoplectic at the suggestion they might be capable of a stupid mistake ever?

Well, the only fair argument either way is to try and determine which side, on balance, applied logic and reason and which side appeared to have been more subject to motivated reasoning.

Motivated reasoning, I'm sure you know, is why we get things wrong, it's why we can be stupid. We fail to apply the tried and tested reasoning of the scientific method which attempts to strip away our biases, preconceptions, emotions, beliefs and focus on evidence and facts. Instead we do not reason disinterestedly, our reason is motivated already.

I would be very happy to go through each of your thought processes on all of the issues with you or any brexiter carefully to discuss their reasoning in detail if you have the courage and are prepared not to rush it. It is possible you were the victim of motivated reasoning, which impeded normally clear reasoning. It is also possible you are just not very good at reasoning.

What I would say up front is worth bearing in mind is that there have been scientific studies that show we are all subject to motivated reasoning and this is particularly true when it comes to politics. Brexit is certainly a passionate political area, so we must conclude that motivated reasoning has been a factor, wouldn't you say?

Studies also show that although both the Left and Right are susceptible to motivated reasoning there is actually a greater propensity for the Right to succumb to motivated reasoning than the Left, (though the better studies show there isn't as much of a gap as some think). Is it fair to say that this has been an issue for the Right more than for those on the Left? Well, it was a Tory referendum to avoid a split in the Tory Party and the loss of votes to UKIP who are generally seen as to the Right of the mainstream Centre Right Party are they not? So I think that is worth considering. Could be an indicator wouldn't you say?

Also it is true that on balance the better educated people voted Remain, as did younger people. I don't think this necessarily suggest higher intelligence per se in the Remain camp because the older people didn't have the opportunity of higher education as much as later generations and also I do think it is fair to say that we gather more wisdom as we get older. I XXXXXX hope so anyway.

However what I think it does say is that the better educated and younger generation will have been more exposed to the scientific method of reasoning, which means they could be better able to apply it and withstand the encroachment of emotions to cloud judgement. I guess older people have also longer to develop and ingrain an emotional response to something also.

Furthermore, I am sure there have been studies and even admissions by leading Leave campaigners that their campaign had to appeal to emotion to win the vote.

So I think you have to ask yourself were you really applying cold hard reason when you made your decision? Was you thinking clear or muddled?

Well, I have a big question right here on your very premise.

'It's impossible to outline what you are voting for when the Leave group and the EU are both presenting a situation that has never happened before and where the criteria was so vague.'

The EU were not presenting anything of the sort. The EU could point, factually to how things are right now. The EU could point factually to existing frameworks and treaties and legalities and money and processes and they did.

The Leave campaigns actually presented factual lies at times.

An example could be that we wanted our Sovereignty back and then the laughable white paper, first paragraph, admitted Parliament had always been Sovereign 'it just hadn't always felt like it' [:D]

Or the Turkey lie?

Or suggesting we could strike individual deals with German Car manufacturers for example.

What you are correct in is saying that the predictions of the future are much more difficult. It is why Osbornes stupid fear mongering exaggerated predictions are not the same. Scale and timing were out, though if we crash out with no deal he might not be far off on scale in the end.

What the Leave campaigns had to do was present a future scenario and framework. There were several off the shelf options they could have picked and presented as a basic starting point - Norway, Switzerland, Canada, Turkey, WTO - so at least a rough full picture was available for people to evaluate.

They didn't.

Even now, Brexit means .....?

How can you possibly think you made a reasoned intelligent decision when you could have no idea which of these is going to happen, unless you actually think every single one of these is better than what we have?

Do you think that?

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Quality Posted on 07/12/2017 09:13
Edited On: 07/12/2017 09:42
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
'You tell a Brexiteer he is stupid an he has an absolute hissy fit...'

Opinion.

Whereas you in your sanctimonious supercilious way actually called a regular inoffensive poster on here a 'liar' because you disagreed with him.

Fact.

And then apologised for the outrageous slur it was.

Try reading Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends And Influence People before you post scurrilous comments on here again.

Just a thought.

Good day.
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UKLL1981 Posted on 07/12/2017 09:24

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Predict something that’s unpredictable?
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lapennabianca Posted on 07/12/2017 09:38

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Meteorologists, seismologists and bookmakers do it all the time.

Just because something is difficult, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

This is especially the case when you've said that you've already done it, as DD has.
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Ironops Posted on 07/12/2017 09:40

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
The Government yesterday admitted they havent yet had a discussion on what they want the final Brexit to look like.

Its not a leave or remain argument anymore, its a soft or hard brexit argument. The Conservative Party wont hold together, they can never agree, theyve been arguing about it for the last 40 years
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sasboro1 Posted on 07/12/2017 09:44

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
so what has david davis really been doing for the last 18 months? i think its all sham and hes been bluffing his way through with his smug arrogant face on tv. its been a complete waste of time with him
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keelo Posted on 07/12/2017 10:15

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 

 Sick to death of whingers and moaners like Lefty constantly banging on about the stupidity of those who chose to vote Leave

That sounds like a whinge to me!
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FartingGnome Posted on 07/12/2017 11:21
Edited On: 07/12/2017 11:21
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
And today's Irony Oscar goes to keelo
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Lefty Posted on 07/12/2017 13:52

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Quality

'Whereas you in your sanctimonious supercilious way actually called a regular inoffensive poster on here a 'liar' because you disagreed with him.

Fact.

And then apologised for the outrageous slur it was. '

Yes, I was wrong to do that. It was pointed out to me, I reflected on it and I apologised.

Is that not exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post?

Normally I'm pretty laid back about stuff but on that occasion I'd got a bit wound up and let emotion cloud my judgement. Is that not what I was saying about motivated reasoning? Did I not say we all make mistakes, including me?

I was then mature enough to reflect on a rebuke I received and big enough to change my mind and apologise for my mistake, as you acknowledge.

That is all Brexiters need to do. Show Parliament public opinion has shifted and we can stop this madness with minimal damage.

I'll forgive anyone a mistake if it is acknowledged and they try to put it right. That gets harder when people double down on stupid though, as they are doing even though there is more evidence every day. It is quite an indicator that people have been subject to motivated reasoning when their reaction to evidence that points to them having been stupid (or fooled, conned, not thorough enough in their decision making process if you prefer) is to get angry at other people pointing it out rather than admitting they could possibly have been wrong. They double down or at best get angry at those who conned them or who are not delivering the unicorns.

I've explained quite reasonably and inoffensively why people who wanted to leave the EU are not unintelligent or generally less intelligent than Remain voters, but that actually VOTING leave was stupid, not just a mistake. I've also offered an explanation for it - motivated reasoning temporarily trumping normally logical reasoning. Motivated reasoning makes people stupid. All people.

A moments reflection by Leave voters on my reasoning will see that.

I take it you were a Leave voter?

I will say it direct to you, you are not a stupid person for finding a lot to be desired in the EU and wanting a different relationship with it. Although you may be depending on what relationship you want. Please feel free to sketch that out for us.

You are stupid though, I think, for two other reasons.

You have posted specifically on my recent posts here without either reading them properly or understanding them, which makes you kinda stupid.

The real reason for that appears to be a grudge you irrationally hold which has such a hold on you you have made a mental note to remember one of my rare posts where I was indeed an asshole. It's not like I post a lot these days anyway. Imagine the power I would have had over your life when I used to?

The other reason I can safely call you stupid is that in a post criticising me for an earlier offensive post and offering me advice on some reading to improve my technique, you ignore that reading yourself and make similar insults as the one you condemn. Quality, indeed.

You should rename yourself StupidMcStupidface.

Unless of course your post was, like mine all those weeks or months ago, a mistake said in the heat of the moment and you are able to acknowledge it, as I was able to. It is a 'quality'. Are you able to show you are able to raise yourself up to my stature, I wonder?

I'm using stature to mean honourable by they way. You can look it up in the S section of the dictionary you appear to be currently stuck in. It will be quite near stupid.


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captain5 Posted on 07/12/2017 14:14

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
And court proceedings have just been issued against the Treasury and the Department for Leaving the EU to see if there are any other documents that exist.
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Lefty Posted on 07/12/2017 14:49

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
We have also just lost our voice on the ECJ we will still be bound to accept jurisdiction on citizens rights at the very least.


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littlejimmy Posted on 07/12/2017 15:28

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Stupid is maybe a strong word to use. I'd say misled or duped/conned. But then that implies stupidity to some. But everyone gets conned some time. I certainly have been. There was too much noise and bluster, too much exaggeration, not enough hard facts that weren't skewed or spun...on both sides. There was a lot of nuance that was missed out. How anyone could take all of this and make an informed, binary decision is beyond me. Cameron's the stupid one...or is he? Just bought himself a new £2 million holiday home, I hear. XXXXXX.
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BarnesBoroFC Posted on 07/12/2017 15:37
Edited On: 07/12/2017 15:46
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I quite enjoyed that lefty, but could you clarify these points, as your argument on objective reasoning seemed to boil down to the following pararaph:

"However what I think it does say is that the better educated and younger generation will have been more exposed to the scientific method of reasoning,"
What makes you think that, people have been bemoaning the drop in educational standards for decades?

"which means they could be better able to apply it and withstand the encroachment of emotions to cloud judgement."

Could you not just as easily argue that younger people who have spent the majority of their lives in the safe bubble of further education could be less emotionally mature, and would therefore find it more difficult to seperate emotion and reasoning?

"I guess older people have also longer to develop and ingrain an emotional response to something also."

In the preceding paragraph you said that wisdom comes with age, doesnt your final statement contradict this?
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UndercoverElephant Posted on 07/12/2017 16:01
Edited On: 07/12/2017 16:02
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
More and more Brexit is reminding me of a bloke in our village. He had a pretty comfortable life, all told, nice house, lovely family. After a while, he started to resent seeing his paycheck disappearing a bit too quickly and his marriage hadn't turned out quite as he'd hoped, I guess.

Anyway, he spent a while in the pub, and the fit young barmaid used to flirt with him. After a bit he told his wife he was leaving her and asked for a divorce. Now at this point he thought he'd be getting his freedom, a better life and a lovely young barmaid.

Unfortunately, when he went to profess his love to said barmaid, she balked as he's a fat bloke in his fifties and she was only actually being friendly. His divorce lawyer was an idiot and his wife's lawyer took him to the cleaners.

He now lives in a bedsit above a kebab shop in a crappy area, all his friends turned out to be his wife's friends except the ones from the pub which he can't really go into anymore because the barmaid still works there and everyone knows what a prat he was. So he sits alone in his flat with cheap cider and is free to cry-XXXXXX himself to sleep every night, whilst thinking it's all his wife's fault. Added to that, he only gets access to little Northern Ireland every other weekend.

That, ladies and gents, is Brexit. But, you know, freedom.
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Capybara Posted on 07/12/2017 16:03

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Very good.
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sasboro1 Posted on 07/12/2017 16:09
Edited On: 07/12/2017 16:11
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
that fat bloke in his 50s has a laptop, but sick of paying for the full OS windows 10. So to save money and hope to run the laptop faster he wants to take off windows and have a bespoked OS installed. and only keep the apps needed.

problems are the bespoked OS has to be done from scratch and no one has tried it before. potentially its more costly and time consuming with no guarantee it will work efficiently or cheaper. the fat blok never realised that by taking off windows 10 he will lose all te apps and have to buy them in individually at a higher price rather than all in one.and possibly pay a yearly charge. with no guarantee the new OS will be compatible to work with other OS. To save time and money the bugs will be fixed as they happen with very little research or testing done. the plan is to give it a go and see what happens and deal with issues as the happen.

The fat bloke asks the IT man what has he let himself in for? the IT man shrugs his shoulders and says well this is what you wanted to do.
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Quality Posted on 07/12/2017 16:13

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Lefty.

Maybe you were not paying attention when virtually every Brexiter said they would vote the same way again in a 2nd referendum, in a thread on here. One or two remainers said they would change their minds.

Are you too thick to take that in? Surely not even you can be so obtuse? You write post after post on here but seem incapable of comprehending that not everybody thinks as you do, and issues that may mean little to you mean a helluva lot to others. And vice versa. Hence the disparity on voting.

You really will make yourself ill until you realise there is nothing you can now do about the situation, and harping on about the wisdom or stupidity of others is the road to nowhere.

Rest assured , were there to be a 2nd referendum and Remain got the vote, I would not moan and whinge day after day like some Remainers do on here. I have more to do and see in life than to let things outside of my control ruin my existence.

That's it from me on this one.

Enjoy your day.

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captain5 Posted on 07/12/2017 16:35

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
If we get a second referendum then those campaigning haven't been dealing with something outside their control.

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lapennabianca Posted on 07/12/2017 17:10
Edited On: 07/12/2017 17:10
The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
"Maybe you were not paying attention when virtually every Brexiter said they would vote the same way again in a 2nd referendum, in a thread on here."

Pretty must grist to his argument's mill that. Despite all the evidence that this is not going to end well, you'd still vote for it? Masochistic, that.
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captain5 Posted on 07/12/2017 17:14

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Surely not; if there was a second referendum, all the benefits of leaving could be put on display?

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TheFair86 Posted on 07/12/2017 17:14

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
"Maybe you were not paying attention when virtually every Brexiter said they would vote the same way again in a 2nd referendum, in a thread on here. One or two remainers said they would change their minds. "

Thing is, FMTTM is not a true representation of everyone's opinion. I take practically everything written on here with a huge pinch of salt and would like to think the average joe on the street, when presented with a actual facts and not made up figures and empty promises, would be able to make an informed choice this time round.
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foomanboro Posted on 07/12/2017 20:35

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
Undercover elephant

[:D]
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zaphod Posted on 07/12/2017 22:37

The Brexit Impact Assessments

 
I don't think anyone much was stupid however they voted, because there weren't really enough hard facts to base a sensible decision on. The stupid one was David Cameron deciding to have a referendum without any proper preparations and cost/benefit analysis. As a result, it was easy for Leave campaigners to emphasize the EU's faults while the Remain campaigners hadn't put their more difficult & subtle case together.

Criticism always has a greater impact than supporting arguments anyway.

People may not have changed their minds, but older people (who mostly went for Leave) may no longer be around and 16/17 year olds would have got the vote in the past 2 years. I found the numbers involved are surprisingly large. 1% of the population dies every year and more than that become eligible to vote each year.
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