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WeeGord Posted on 14/11/2017 18:37
Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA
 
 
When on earth will something be done?
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swordtrombonefish Posted on 14/11/2017 20:53

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
Mass shooting #387

Up to 5 dead and reports of at least 2 children wounded at Rancho Tehama, California

..."now is not the time to be asking...yada...yada...yada"
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ItalianJob Posted on 14/11/2017 21:03

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
Pray for the victims, blah blah blah......
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dooderooni Posted on 14/11/2017 21:06

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
The problem for us is that we can't understand just how alien the US gun culture is. However sad and unfortunate we view the loss of life in these mass shootings it really is just collateral damage for the Americans who value their right to bear arms more than they value the sanctity of life.
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Derek_Duvall Posted on 14/11/2017 21:08

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
It's in the second amendment you know...
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king_hellfire Posted on 14/11/2017 21:14

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
'When on earth will something be done?'


I'm not sure anything will ever be done about it. I'd even bet that if the children of the president of the NRA are gunned down he'd only insist that more firearms for protection is the answer.
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uncle_rico Posted on 14/11/2017 21:23

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
Itís not even breaking news anymore. Thereís a lot of stuff that happens the world that doesnít get reported in Western media, but anything in the USA gets the page space.

As others have said I canít see anything ever happening. Most of these that commit mass murder either kill themselves or they are shot dead by the police so theres rarely ever any real justice.
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hamstercheeks Posted on 14/11/2017 21:33
Edited On: 14/11/2017 21:51
Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
Pointless even discussing gun laws it'll never change over there, I don't think we'll ever be able to understand the perspective of the average American gun owner either it's a totally different culture.

It's virtually pointless even reporting on stories like this as well, it's about as common as a group of people being killed in a motor accident (or that's how it feels anyway).
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SNOWBANDIT Posted on 14/11/2017 22:03

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
Until someone decides to turn up at- say the Dolby Theatre on Oscar night and nabs a few TOP celebs - pretty much nothing will ever be done - and even then...................[|)]
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vicarinatutu Posted on 15/11/2017 06:17

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
The problem is the blind tribalism that is ingrained in the psyche of some Americans.

Their politics are so cleanly split in two. Here you get diehard Labour/Tories who would never vote for the other, but it's not quite as clear as the divide between Democrats and Republicans (though the Leave/Remain divide with Brexit has definitely reached that point, and displays all the blind, poorly thought out fanaticism, hatred and intolerance that splitting people into two opposing halves brings).

So you have one side opposing the other just because it's Us versus Them. It's like a soccer game where you support your side and hope you "beat" your opponent. It's why moves always get blocked and stymied in the US political system, and why they keep having the same arguments. You get people opposing Obama/Trump because they are the leader of the opposite side. So to change the gun laws, you're going to have one side convince the other, which is a mammoth task as it's something inherently tied up in one political party. Issues split party lines a lot easier in the UK, and we actually have more political parties and a lot more fluid systems.

The other thing is the psyche. If May was being openly backed and financially supported by an organisation, let's call them the National Spoon Organisation, and at an election came on stage with representatives - let's call them Spooners - and declared that knives and forks would be outlawed (Fork Off would be a great slogan) and every meal would only be allowed to be consumed via the method of the Holy Spoon, due to something a few educated lawyers and landowners wrote in the 1770s, people would probably see right through it and generally hound her out.

I mean, I'm sure politicians are heavily influenced by certain groups but in the USA you literally have Trump and the NSA leaders on stage, openly admitted to contributing hundreds of thousands of dollars to his campaign. Here we just couldn't stomach that, I reckon.

So even before we get on to the horrendously stupid arguments of it appearing in a 300 year document and of gun ownership providing a check to the powers of Government or protection against a invading force, you have a nation where a group can basically fund a President and dictate policy.

How is anything going to change?

Ironically, and I'll only go in to this briefly, but the formation of the USA and the Founding Fathers is basically a Creation Myth to Americans now and akin to Genesis, with the Constitution being their Bible and the founding fathers effectively being deified. The 2nd Amendment is not just a piece of 300 year old legal work, but Scripture. Despite being, erm, an Amendment to their sacred Constitution.

Having read about the Founding Fathers, and with a lot of them being fairly well education, fairly liberal (for the time, though a lot stll owned slaves and a lot were wealthy landowners with their own agendas), I reckon that quite a lot of them would be a) aghast at the current situation with gun violence and b) as fairly progressive thinkers, would be shocked that their original laws existed unchecked and unchallenged three centuries later. These are people who rebelled and argued against British traditions and laws and wanted to adapt them to the times, so I don't think they wrote the Constitution expect it to basically exist as it is for the rest of all time.
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Greenandblack Posted on 15/11/2017 07:44

Yet ANOTHER shooting in the USA

 
The US Constitution isn't 300 years old. It's been amended 28 times. It just sets out the relationship between the people, the government and the judiciary. That's as relevant in 2017 as it was in 1776.

The right to bear arms was intended to allow citizens to form themselves into militia to resist the British in the struggle for independence. It's been subverted somehow into people believing they can own guns regardless of purpose. That's not what was intended.
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