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LeeTublin Posted on 14/11/2017 00:36
Solanke,Cook and Dunn
 
 
All in the England squad. Are we really that short of players we are picking people I have barely heard of ? [sad]
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expat_smoggie Posted on 14/11/2017 03:53

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Gareth doing his best to enact change without really doing anything.
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hopesoboro Posted on 14/11/2017 08:42

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Who would you pick?
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uncle_rico Posted on 14/11/2017 08:45

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Who’s Dunn? Do you mean Angus Gunn?

Cook deserves to be in there, has been good for Bournemouth. Thought Mark Pugh deserves a chance too but didn’t realise he’s 30.
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FrozenHorse Posted on 14/11/2017 08:45

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
The England manager gets it in the neck if he sticks with the tried and tested, and if he thinks outside the box.

Whatever he does will be wrong because, ultimately, we don’t have good enough players to reach the late stages of the World Cup.
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upthechels Posted on 14/11/2017 08:49

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Quite a few of the big guns have cried off. Not really sure GS has any choice other than to 'scrape the barrel'

This international break seems a bit senseless to me. I understand the previous 2 but not this break. Clubs were always going to pull out players with fake injuries.
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Marvanelli Posted on 14/11/2017 08:49

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Totally understand the call up for Solanke. He's been in phenemonal form for England at the lower levels.

Cook & Dunn are strange call ups.

I'm surprised some on here haven't complained Jonjo Shelvey hasn't received a call up instead [:D].

However, it's blatently obvious why he hasn't, even Southgate knows that!
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upthechels Posted on 14/11/2017 08:53

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Shelvey is a loose cannon but I think he's half decent and could do a good job for England. Not saying a starter but within the squad.
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/11/2017 08:53

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Cook was outstanding in the same tournament that Solanke played in this summer.
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hopesoboro Posted on 14/11/2017 09:00

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Think Gareth has allowed his Boro leanings to get the better of him in not picking Shelvey,who has looked the business this season.
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tryasize10 Posted on 14/11/2017 09:07

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
The centre half from Burnley, Tarkowski is someone I think should be looked at by England
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/11/2017 09:13

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"Totally understand the call up for Solanke. He's been in phenemonal form for England at the lower levels."

85 minutes from the bench in the league this season. Categorically not yet good enough for Liverpool but likely to win England caps? What an absolute mess this league has become.
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wombledon Posted on 14/11/2017 09:41

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
After England U20s won the World Cup people were saying we should send these lads to the real World Cup instead of the tried and tested failures.

Southgate calls up two of the best players from that squad for a friendly, to get some experience of being around the seniors and it's now a mess.

Southgate has also explained his reasoning behind picking certain players, such as Maguire over Smalling, as he thinks Maguire suits how he wants to play more than Smalling. Yet I've read people claiming big club bias for not picking certain players like Ben Mee and Lewis Dunk.

He's dropped the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain and Sturridge to give new players like Abraham and Loftus-Cheek a chance.

The manager will never win, as everything he does is wrong.

I respect Southgate for some of his decisions, as it would've been very easy to stick with those bigger name players and not give youth a chance.

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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/11/2017 09:49

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"The manager will never win, as everything he does is wrong."

Sums up this board perfectly.
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Marvanelli Posted on 14/11/2017 09:50

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Totally agree Wombledon.

Some folk will never be happy regardless of what Southgate does.
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hopesoboro Posted on 14/11/2017 10:07

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Yes they won't!
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jack31439 Posted on 14/11/2017 11:01

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
The reason these lads have been called up is because they were already with the camp on U21 duty. I'm sure with more time they wouldn't be the selected few.
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RC92 Posted on 14/11/2017 11:11

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
I'm surprised some on here haven't complained Jonjo Shelvey hasn't received a call up instead [:D].

However, it's blatently obvious why he hasn't, even Southgate knows that!
-----

He is better than Henderson who manages to walk into the team every call-up, that's for sure.

I would rather have some of the young players brought through rather than stick with the tried, tested and failed. The reality is that only Kane or Alli would get into the team of top nations.
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Derek_Duvall Posted on 14/11/2017 11:15

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Honestly, when I heard this I thought it was the women's team. Never heard of Solanke!
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CiscoKid Posted on 14/11/2017 12:05

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"Are we really that short of players we are picking people I have barely heard of ?"

So the criteria for selecting players is you need to have heard of them!
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Tacker Posted on 14/11/2017 12:15

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
I thought his team selection for Germany was up for debate, and I thoroughly enjoyed watching them on Friday night. It was refreshing to see the likes of Loftus-Cheek get the ball and actually turn on it to face the opposition. Pickford gave a great performance and chance to be No.1, not sure if he's ready for it but only one way to find out.

I'm pleased Southgate is choosing the players he has, it's a change from the norm and I definitely believe St Georges Park is beginning to create a different type of "English footballer".
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atypical_boro Posted on 14/11/2017 12:36

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"After England U20s won the World Cup people were saying we should send these lads to the real World Cup instead of the tried and tested failures."

I wasn't, and yes it is now a mess in my view.

I'd rather send a few players from the Championship than a load of hyped up kids who can't get in their club teams but already earn £50kpw.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 14/11/2017 19:01

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Given youngsters from a world beating team a run out in a friendly?

If it was the German manager doing this you'd be pointing at them as the way forward.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 00:18

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Who says I would Cat?

Germany have in the past produced young players who are good enough to get in their club sides. They’re the ones who deserve to play.

Solanke needs to prove himself at Liverpool before he gets a sniff for England. He’s yet to start a match. A good season in Holland proves nothing - or should Lewis Baker be in the squad too?
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Kezzy1876 Posted on 15/11/2017 13:30

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
I'm all in favour and giving youth a chance but playing kids that haven't even started a game is getting a bit silly now isn't it.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 13:35

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Yes Kezzy, it really is. Its clutching at straws because the manager knows its an easier card to play to the media than picking proven Championship players, such is the snobbery around 'second tier' football in England. Southgate's talent pool is only so small because he chooses for it to be.
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Kramer Posted on 15/11/2017 13:48

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
I would rather see what these kids can do rather then Smalling, Sturridge, Oxlade Chamberlain, Wishere, Walcott, Welbeck etc

Its likely that Alli, Kane and Sterling will return and slot straight back in. Lallana when he returns to fitness. Probably Henderson.

Its unlikely Solanke, Cook and Gunn will go to the world cup but its is good experience for them to play and train with the senior squad. I don't think you can say Pickford, Gomez and Loftus Cheek let themselves down
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wombledon Posted on 15/11/2017 14:54

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
atypical: out of curiosity, what would your England Championship 11 be?
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 15:04

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Where have I said it needs to be a championship only 11?
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 15:17

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Are there any English Championship strikers better than Solanke?

I don't think so.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 15:33

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
How many times have you seen him play at professional/senior level Cat, to make that call?
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wombledon Posted on 15/11/2017 15:37

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
You haven’t, I merely posted a question out of curiosity seeing as you seem to have strong feelings towards this. No need to get defensive, it was just a hypothetical question.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 16:35

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Atypical, I've only seen him on TV, how do you judge players that don't play for the Boro?
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 16:38
Edited On: 15/11/2017 16:53
Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Fair enough. Didn't mean to seem defensive just wanted to make clear I had never suggested sending a squad of Championship only players.

It does grind my gears a little that people talk about how small the talent pool is in England because of the number of foreign players in the Premier League, and totally condescend the Championship which is probably the 5th or 6th best league in Europe and hosts a plethora of good English players. The problem is, because those players play for unfashionable Bristol City or whatever, they are scoffed at by the Sky Sports fanboys (including many of the pundits and most recent England managers) who think that the England side should simply consist of as many players from the top 6 as possible, even if they don't get games.

As I say, Southgate's talent pool is only small because he chooses for it to be, and because he worries what The Sun will say if he picks someone like Joe Ralls for England when he could pick some hyped up wonderkid who played for Chelsea in the Caribao Cup once.

If I had to pick a Championship XI for England (and I'm not saying this is what England should do, but if I had to) it would look something like this.


Gunn (admittedly I'm struggling for a keeper)

Hunt
Gibson
Flint
Bryan

Ralls
Cairney

Reid
Mendez-Laing
Freeman

Hooper



Quite attacking, but lets live a little [:D]

Go on, scoff away. Tell me Rhian Brewster is loads better.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 16:39
Edited On: 15/11/2017 16:40
Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Cat - the question was how many times, not via what medium. He has 102 minutes under his belt in the Premier League, so you can't have watched him much.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 16:46

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Only his England appearances at a couple of different age groups.

I'd say half a dozen max.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 16:48
Edited On: 15/11/2017 16:49
Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
So you've never seen him play at senior level, which was what I asked. Like Southgate hasn't (or barely has).

And that's what we've resorted to.

Still, if Theo Walcott is the blueprint eh? At least he'd played a few games in the Championship before we wasted a place in the squad on him.


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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 16:53

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
I've seen some of those in that XI you've suggested, there'a reasob most aren't interedting top flight clubs.

You pick Gibsob but there are younger kids playing his position at a higher level. Ho

Hooper, are you being serious?

Hyped up Championship players or hyped up youngsters, is that yoyr argument?
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 16:56
Edited On: 15/11/2017 16:57
Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"Hyped up Championship players or hyped up youngsters, is that your argument?"

Basically, yes. I'd sooner send someone with a bit of hype who also has a bit of experience of playing in front of a few tens of thousands of people, and perhaps doesn't already earn enough money to retire before they're old enough to buy cigarettes who might show a little bit of hunger on the pitch when they could be on their summer holidays.

Trust me, if Southgate continues down this avenue it will once again end in disaster. Feel free to hoof this post next summer if I'm wrong.
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Borocelt Posted on 15/11/2017 17:02

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Britt has never accepted a call up from Congo. Maybe he fancies he has a shot at playing for England. He'd be eligible.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 17:05

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
He has lived in England his whole life, so yeah no doubt at all Britt would.

Yet despite his record and attributes, is probably behind Ike Ugbo in the pecking order.
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wombledon Posted on 15/11/2017 17:06

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Cairney is Scottish, or at least playing for Scotland.

I think it’s a romantic view on football in truth. Picking the lesser known players as you think they’ll fight and be more passionate than the more established players, like the performances of NI or Iceland in recent years.

In truth, those performances have come from good management and playing to the best of their ability, but ultimately, in the case of NI have failed to qualify.

If you asked the manager of those nations which squad they’d prefer to take to a WC, I think it’s likely they’re choosing England.

If Solanke plays all season in the Championship and scores a bucket load will he be accepted as deserving of a call up?

Abraham has done that and probably feels he’s proved himself at that level.

If you think where our squad is compared to the likes of Germany, France, Spain, Brazil, then we’re already underdogs as it is.

I’d personally rather see us pick the best players as possible, whilst also giving experience to those from successful youth teams I thought could make the step up to senior level.

Southgate is doing it right in my eyes, as he’s not looking solely at instant success but has a longer term vision.

He knows he’ll be hampered in the short term with possible win ratios lower than other managers, but he’s committed to developing an England side which in years to come, plays good, attacking football and without fear. Regardless of whether or not he’s the manager that benefits from that.







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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 17:17
Edited On: 15/11/2017 17:18
Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Didn't realise Cairney had been capped by Scotland, fair enough.

"Picking the lesser known players as you think they’ll fight and be more passionate than the more established players"

See this is exactly the kind of statement I don't understand. How is Tammy Abraham more 'established' than Gary Hooper? Both had decent records in the Championship (Abraham perhaps slightly better but for a much shorter period of time) and both have done 'ok' in poor sides in the Premier League.

The only thing that distinguishes them is that Abraham is owned by Chelsea (but will never play for them).

And before you say 'potential', 'potential' and 'established' are mutually exclusive descriptions.

"If Solanke plays all season in the Championship and scores a bucket load will he be accepted as deserving of a call up?"

He would deserve it more than he does currently, of course he would.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 17:20

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Can I also just remind any potential respondees that I didn't actually suggest sending a team of Championship only players, and no Gary Hooper should not be picked ahead of Harry Kane.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 17:46

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
If it ends in disaster?

If it doesn't it will be the first time since 1990 that it hasn't. We've looked awful every World Cup since.

Maybe we didn't have enough lower league players selected?
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 17:54

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
"Maybe we didn't have enough lower league players selected?"

Or maybe we've paid too much attention to the global Premier League brand when picking the national team.

There are about 60 English players getting regular games in the PL now. The idea that only those 60 should be considered, or that the next best 60 aren't good enough because they've 'not attracted interest from the bigger clubs' is in my view, incredibly short-sighted.

It was more understandable in years gone by when there was actually an element of choice available in the Premier League.

We're not far away from the scenario where we can't actually physically name a squad without some Championship players in it! Give it another ten years?
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 18:19

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
The better players are at the top level in national league tournaments. Always have been with the very occassional exception.

The FA have made a pigs ear of the competition but it hasn't stopped the best English players from playing in the top flight.

The manager has looked at the success of players available to him and he's looking to see how they bed in with better players at a higher standard.

You're arguing for him to play proven sub standard players or those who haven't yet made the top flight, due to their mediocre abilities.

I'd have to go with Southgate on this one.
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atypical_boro Posted on 15/11/2017 18:31

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
That's fine Cat, I'm aware I'm in the minority on this. I guess we'll have to see how it goes in June.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 15/11/2017 19:33

Solanke,Cook and Dunn

 
Depends on the draw but I'm expecting us to go out in the group stage with a side full of established players.
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