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uncle_rico Posted on 13/11/2017 09:57
Football and Dementia documentary last night
 
 
Surprised there isnít already a thread on here about this. A really interesting documentary and thought Shearer did a good job. What struck me though is that there is clearly a link, the Coroner even stated that heading the ball was the cause of Jeff Astleís death in 2002, yet both the FA and PFA (not to mention FIFA) have done very little and almost seem in denial.

Clearly there needs to be a lot more research, and itís good to know that the research has now been funded, but it seems they have waited until theyíve had no choice rather than be proactive.
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Nero Posted on 13/11/2017 10:11

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Just ask yourself why the Americans don't allow kids to head the ball. It tells a story I think.
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Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 13/11/2017 10:15

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I didn't see the program but it give an indication as to how many people develop dementia due to it?.
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uncle_rico Posted on 13/11/2017 11:20

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
No it didn't Exiled, but that's the point there has been very little research done in this county. There are clear links, and although the FA sanctioned research in 2002 it was never completed because all of the subjects did not make it as professional footballers so they just left it. They've done nothing since then on the cumulative effects of constantly heading a football which is where the links to dementia come from.

Gordon Taylor was asked if he knew out of the 50000 PFA members how many of them were suffering from Dementia and he didn't have a clue.
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Heine Posted on 13/11/2017 11:57

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Difficult to know for sure without the research but even in the case of Jeff Astle it couldn't be proven that his illness was a consequence of heading the ball and not a blow to the head(clash of heads,elbow etc.) his condition is classed as CTE(boxers brain)
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1finny Posted on 13/11/2017 12:01

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
This whole 'cause and effect' debate for dementia is fascinating.
You would have to argue that heading a ball lots of time must run some kind of risk.

It would be interesting to see the stats on the rise in number of cases dementia.

There is a view, for instance, that there is a direct correlation between the rise of dementia and the increased consumption of meat.

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BarnesBoroFC Posted on 13/11/2017 12:23

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I didn't see see the documentary, but I read the article last week. The first question that came to mind is did they look at the impact of the old style balls versus the new modern ball?

I imagine heading the old style ball would have a far worse effect than the modern ball.
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Marvanelli Posted on 13/11/2017 12:33

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I got to admit, after watching Concussion and reading about the effects of American Football has had on players, I am shocked we haven't researched this in football.

Granted the footballs we use today are different to what we used only 10 years ago, however it seems like we are just burying our heads in the sand and turning a blind eye to it all. There is definitely enough evidence about nowadays to warrant research and investigations.
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LOCOMANSIMON Posted on 13/11/2017 13:54

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
What it needed to tell us but didn't is what percentage of footballers develop dementia compared with the rest of the population, then it could be identified as a problem related to heading a ball or not
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redwurzel Posted on 13/11/2017 14:11

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Shearers brain scan was normal you would think he would be a prime candidate so the connection is not clear cut for me.

You would expect Geoff Hurst and Jack Charlton to be affected more than Nobby Stiles who rarely headed the ball.

There could be a connection with heading the ball, but it appears so far to connected to the individual make up as well, so maybe someone who is already prone to dementia develops its quicker from heading and colliding. Proper stats need gathering as said to establish if dementia is more common in footballers.

The modern ball is much lighter when wet and this helps reduce impact.
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Alan_Breck Posted on 13/11/2017 14:15
Edited On: 13/11/2017 14:16
Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
"Shearers brain scan was normal you would think he would be a prime candidate so the connection is not clear cut for me."

You don't use your head when taking penalties [:D]

#UTB
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FlapJacks Posted on 13/11/2017 14:22

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
"Shearers brain scan was normal you would think he would be a prime candidate so the connection is not clear cut for me. "

A sample of one. [rle]
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jam69 Posted on 13/11/2017 14:26

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
My dad played amateur football for 20 years in the days of those big heavy leather balls. no nonsense centre half you would describe him, he's had dementia for around 7 years. Not much of him left upstairs these days. I think there's a link .
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Anton_Berg Posted on 13/11/2017 14:29

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
The only correlation you are able to make, if any, is with pro football and dementia. It could be collisions but not 'free' heading. It could be the seating on the team buses, or embrocation.
I switched off when Gordon 'teflon' Taylor appeared.
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NYboro Posted on 13/11/2017 14:29

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
My mother had worsening dementia in her last few years and never played football at all. It needs further research.
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Tuncaythefunguy Posted on 13/11/2017 14:52

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
When Muamba went down with his heart condition, it didnít take long before all professional and semi professional clubs had a defibrillator.

15 years since Astle died, nothing has been done. Not even at youth level.

The FA will know that once itís proved, itís gonna cost them millions in compensation. Thatís the reason no research has been done.
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NYboro Posted on 13/11/2017 15:06

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
What actually got me was that they started a long-term research project with youth footballers, but none of them made the grade so they just let it slide.....
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Dibzzz Posted on 13/11/2017 15:27

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
What's the stats like with rugby?
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1finny Posted on 13/11/2017 15:30

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I'm not sure its for football to do any study - and to suggest they don't because it will cost them in compo is a bit of a stretch.
Isn't this for the medics?

Boxers, footy players, rugby players (to a lesser extent) all get blows to the head - what does it tell us about their propensity to get dementia v those not in contact sports?

My mate's father played for Hartlepool back in the day - old fashioned centre forward.
He got Alzheimer's and sadly died a couple of years ago.
The same mate's mam has also got it.

Discuss
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uncle_rico Posted on 13/11/2017 15:50

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
"The first question that came to mind is did they look at the impact of the old style balls versus the new modern ball?"

I'm sure they said that the old leather ball (or at least the type they were looking at) was actually lighter than the modern balls. The issue was when they got wet as they could increase in weight by about 50%.
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uncle_rico Posted on 13/11/2017 15:53

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
"My mother had worsening dementia in her last few years and never played football at all."

I don't think it was trying to suggest that you will only get Dementia if you have headed a football all your life, but more that you would be at an increased risk.
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pompeylad Posted on 13/11/2017 15:56

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
as an ex playing colleague of Alan Shearer..I believe that this will be found to be a problem/link to the players that played and headed the old style football which as showed last night when soaking wet went from about 390 grams to 590 grams ...!!! remember my old man saying how heavy they were to head balls back in 50's/60's..From 1980's the balls used improved a lot as they had more waterproof protection...We wont know for sure what effect its had unless more studies/research are done but definitely believe a lot of the players in their late 50's and above will have occurred damage from repeated heading of the heavy wet ball in an era when the game was also played a lot more in the air..JT stated that they hardly did any heading in more recent years/ as game has changed to a being a lot more on the floor..not many old style centre forwards / centre halfs for many a year now
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nowthen Posted on 13/11/2017 15:56

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I watched it but can't remember much about it.
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NYboro Posted on 13/11/2017 16:07

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
> I don't think it was trying to suggest that you will only get Dementia if you have headed a football all your life, but more that you would be at an increased risk.


I think it failed in proving that because of a lack of research.
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r00fie1 Posted on 13/11/2017 18:54

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Any "sport" which involves inflicting damage to the brain - like boxing - should be banned.
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HolgateCorner Posted on 13/11/2017 19:06

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I think thatís the problem isnít it?

If they face up to the fact that heading the ball, even the modern ball which wonít increase in weight when wet, might cause brain damage then the sport is potentially in trouble isnít it?

Imagine the game of football without heading? Every match becomes a game of 5 a side, ok to play but much less of a spectacle to watch.
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NYboro Posted on 13/11/2017 19:24

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
PFA responding to the documentary.....

Link: Ban heading for under-11s
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Heine Posted on 13/11/2017 21:07

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
It's very difficult to even get figures of ex footballers you'd need to have a database of all the people who have it and see if it's above the national average not saying it's not linked but wouldn't every Centre Half in the 50s and 60s have it ?
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uncle_rico Posted on 13/11/2017 21:17

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
ďnot saying it's not linked but wouldn't every Centre Half in the 50s and 60s have it ?Ē

Thatís like saying everyone who smokes will get lung cancer.

The whole point of the documentary was that there is a credible link to dementia from playing football and other sports. But at present it cannot be proved due to lack of research.
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Heine Posted on 13/11/2017 21:33

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I meant how much does it increase the potential as I said these injuries could have been caused by head trauma
Ie. Elbows,clash of heads
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SilentProf Posted on 13/11/2017 22:20

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
They actually linked a lot of the damage to training drills rather than games as youíd be heading multiple balls in a short time. They suggested kids should learn with sponge balls, which would be good start. Apparently girls and women are more at risk too.
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PrideOfTeesside Posted on 13/11/2017 23:18

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Heading the ball is part of the sport, I wouldn't encourage my little boy to stop heading the ball because of links to dementia. As stated above people who have never played football get it, therefore no link imo if your going to get dementia you will get it regardless.
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uncle_rico Posted on 14/11/2017 11:40

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
What a ridiculous statement that is. Why would you ignore something that could increase your risk?
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newusername Posted on 14/11/2017 12:26

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
"What a ridiculous statement that is. Why would you ignore something that could increase your risk?"

Because they've made a rational assessment of the risk of developing dementia anyway (see earlier poster's mum) and balanced the purported increased risk posed by heading the ball against all the benefits of playing a fantastic team sport with friends?

You can double your chances of winning the lottery by buying a second ticket, making the chance of becoming a millionaire more likely than before, are you going to jack in your job before the numbers are drawn?

FWIW I think heading the ball is an obvious but misleading trail to follow and they'd be far better improving identification, treatment & recovery of even mild cases of concussion suffered by the players.


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boromike85 Posted on 14/11/2017 12:39

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
I didn't watch it all but I've read up in the past about NFL players and their dementia risk.

The greatest risk is not from the ball or from the collision. NFL players wear helmets; it is the brain colliding with the inside of the skull. This causes concussion which is what causes CTE and the long term damage. Footballers don't get concussion from heading the ball so the major injuries are unlikely. They do get blows to the head from other players which can cause concussion.

A career full of small amounts of damage can build up into something serious is possible I suppose. There needs to be a proper study with a proper sample size of professional footballers v general population to get to the bottom of it. I would be surprised if there is no damage whatsoever to repeatedly heading a ball though. I'd also guess it's more of a risk for kids who are still developing.
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MightyDuck Posted on 14/11/2017 12:57

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
im sure there's an ESPN 30/30 documentary on this in American football.

Anyway, we should ban heading. Our football should be played on the floor, not in the air [;)]
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Gibsons_Parmo Posted on 14/11/2017 14:18

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
Heading a football over years and years of playing is obviously going to take its toll on some people but maybe not all but surely this has got to be expected when you start playing any sport or doing anything in general, a bang on the head isn't going to do anybody much good.
However what do people want now? Heading to be banned? Boxing to be banned?
Surely this time and money could be better spent on finding a cure for dementia, we all play sport knowing at some point we are at risk some harm.
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borobadge Posted on 14/11/2017 18:57

Football and Dementia documentary last night

 
people wernt called ' head the balls' for nothing...

Motor Neurone Disease that's another one that wants looking in to.
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