Home  |  Message Board  |  Contact Us  |  About Us  |  Fan Pics  |  Fan Polls  |  RSS Feed  |  Top of Thread  |  Login  |  Register
Display By:
Home  |  Message Board  |  Top of Thread  |  Login  |  Register
Display By:

 

Previous Thread   |  Top Of Board  |  Start New Thread  |   Next Thread
allied_assault Posted on 12/10/2017 15:20
Edited On: 12/10/2017 15:23At last - someone talking sense
 
 
“I think England have done well. They’ve qualified and I know the English press and fans talk like qualifiers are like friendly games which, on one hand, OK, but only to a certain level.

“Portugal needed to win their final game in a group with Switzerland but if England were in a group with Switzerland you’d think they were like Slovenia. Italy are going to the Play-Offs, France needed to win their last game, Croatia needed to win to go to the Play-Offs and they have a really good team. ​

“Apart from Germany and Belgium, nobody cruised to qualification, so we should appreciate that.”

Slaven Bilic
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 12/10/2017 15:22
Edited On: 12/10/2017 15:23
At last - someone talikng sense

 
I don't think this is the reason for current low interest in the national side. Its the knowledge that even had we cruised to qualification winning every game 5-0, it would be no representation of how well England will perform in Russia. That's why no one gives a fcuk, it's not because anyone is saying they should have done better.
IP: Logged
allied_assault Posted on 12/10/2017 15:24

At last - someone talikng sense

 
So we are prejudging Southgate and the team before a ball is kicked in Russia

Seems fair to me [rle]
IP: Logged
Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 12/10/2017 15:25

At last - someone talikng sense

 
France didn't need to win their last game at all. They would have gone through with a defeat. It's the manner of victories against some poor teams that's what has got peoples goat. There's is no progression in the way the team play since the sacking of Capello (and that was some poor football as well). It's never been about the qualifying though, it's what we do when we get there. Wait and see before claiming we've done well.
IP: Logged
wilkos_perm Posted on 12/10/2017 15:26

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I don't think anybody is unhappy with the results, it's the lack of craft, clear team pattern and technical ability on show that people find disturbing. The unhappiness with the team isn't specifically around the qualifiers, it's the recognition that we appear to be in a long cycle of decline.
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 12/10/2017 15:26
Edited On: 12/10/2017 15:27
At last - someone talikng sense

 
I don't think anyone is pre-judging anything on anything other than the fact that the team looks virtually identical to the one who were completely outclassed by a nation of 300,000 people little over a year ago. If Rooney hadn't retired he'd have been shoe-horned in somehow still as well despite his relentless inability to perform at major tournaments.
IP: Logged
Ironops Posted on 12/10/2017 15:30

At last - someone talikng sense

 
The victories cant be denied, but the manner of them, the boring play, the lack of adventure, the same faces and the same seemingly brittle confidence, its like watching Boro under Karanka (ok, not THAT bad!)

We are a very very limited side and people are astute enough to realise that.

Everyone wants us to do well - I do anyway - I just dont think we will, we've sen it all before.

Hodgson didnt lose a game in the Euro qualifiers. Then when we got there we were $hite.

Same with Capello - great in qualifying, $hit at the world cup
IP: Logged
FrozenHorse Posted on 12/10/2017 15:31

At last - someone talikng sense

 
“France didn't need to win their last game at all. They would have gone through with a defeat. ”

True in hindsight; however they went in to the final match knowing that only a win would guarantee qualification.
IP: Logged
Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 12/10/2017 15:41

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Well I'm presuming Bilic was talking after the event as well, so he's incorrect?.
IP: Logged
Barnsy Posted on 12/10/2017 15:42

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Some people prefer to be dissatisfied, particularly where England are concerned.
Many say they won't be watching England play and then slag their performance off on here. Without watching?

England have never inspired confidence since winning the cup in '66, apart from a couple of years.

Come on England.
IP: Logged
FrozenHorse Posted on 12/10/2017 15:45
Edited On: 12/10/2017 15:46
At last - someone talikng sense

 
“Needed” is past tense?
There was a need in the past.
IP: Logged
1finny Posted on 12/10/2017 15:50

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I thought this thread was going to be about about Pog [;)]
IP: Logged
Muttley Posted on 12/10/2017 15:55

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I think some of it is simply managing expectations. Expect to be going home after the group stages and no-one will be terribly surprised or disappointed.

To take an uncharacteristically positive note for an England thread...

The age of the squad has come right down, perhaps Russia will be a tournament too early but if we allow Southgate to fail there it mightn't be the worst idea to let him take us to the Euros? I don't see any immediate alternatives and he has achieved the target set for him so far.

"If Rooney hadn't retired he'd have been shoe-horned in somehow..."

I'm pretty sure he "retired" because Southgate made it clear that he would only get a game in some sort of extreme crisis of availability. He chose to retire rather than be publicly "dropped" altogether. Which is sort of what I would expect of Southgate.
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 12/10/2017 16:06

At last - someone talikng sense

 
From the article the day he retired Muttley:

"England's all-time leading goalscorer Wayne Rooney has retired from international football after turning down the chance to be part of the squad for next month's World Cup qualifiers.

The Everton striker was asked by England boss Gareth Southgate to be involved against Malta and Slovakia."
IP: Logged
B-MAN Posted on 12/10/2017 16:11

At last - someone talikng sense

 
People are losing interest because England are dull as dishwater to watch. Insanely boring. Probably the most entertaining game to watch in this qualifying campaign was our worst result, which tells you a lot.
IP: Logged
wilkos_perm Posted on 12/10/2017 16:13

At last - someone talikng sense

 
"I think some of it is simply managing expectations. Expect to be going home after the group stages and no-one will be terribly surprised or disappointed."

That is what most people think, and that situation is what disappoints people. The fact that we are one of the biggest football nations, we have the richest league, and we're nowhere near competing with the best (yes, I realize some of the above could be cited as the root cause)
IP: Logged
Boromart Posted on 12/10/2017 16:17

At last - someone talikng sense

 
1 in 4 prem players is eligible for England. It's a sad state of affairs:

Here are the whoscored here are the top english players, with their position in the top 100:
3 - Kane
12 - Rashford
15 - Phil Jones
21 - Nick Pope
23 - Ben Mee
25 - Tarkowski
28 - Sterling
40 - Dele Alli
44 - Maguire
52 - Loftus-Cheek
57 - Lascelles
61 - Joseph Gomez
64 - Wellbeck
74 - Solly March
76 - Andy Carroll
77 - Kyle Walker
78 - Chalobah
81 - Kieran Gibbs
84 - Vardy
87 - Henderson
88 - Dier
90 - Stones
91 - Jack Cork
93 - Simon Francis

That's a shocking lack of talent outside the top 2.

....................Pope
Walker......Mee..........Jones......Gomez
.........Chalobah.....March
Sterling..........Alli...........Rashford
......................Kane


On form (not reputation) that is the best team we can put out and it's awful.
IP: Logged
wombledon Posted on 12/10/2017 16:18

At last - someone talikng sense

 
"Some people prefer to be dissatisfied, particularly where England are concerned.
Many say they won't be watching England play and then slag their performance off on here. Without watching?"

I'm pretty sure you could change "England" to "Boro" and the same sentence will still apply. [;)]
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 12/10/2017 16:19
Edited On: 12/10/2017 16:20
At last - someone talikng sense

 
If you're an established, experienced English player who has delivered consistently in the Premier League and/or Championship for a few years, you are deemed vastly inferior to some kid who has made a few sub appearances for United, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton or arsenal.

This country has become so obsessed with unearthing superstars that it has adopted a culture where it genuinely believes anyone who gets on the pitch for any of the above 6-7 clubs is just around the corner from becoming one, despite the disastrous results said culture has consistently delivered.
IP: Logged
wilkos_perm Posted on 12/10/2017 16:26

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I'd agree with that atypical. When the players at the top clubs were the likes of Beckam, Scholes, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand etc etc there was no real valid argument when people complained about all the squad coming from a handful of clubs. But tendency toward peripheral figures at big clubs now is at times misguided.
IP: Logged
jonny_greenings_sock Posted on 13/10/2017 06:04
Edited On: 13/10/2017 07:21
At last - someone talikng sense

 
Atypical, I totally agree with that. Steady pros like James Milner, Gareth Barry were largely laughed at for England. I don't think it's a byproduct of big clubs hoarding talent or a natural progression from the U21s either with the likes of Harry XXXXXX Winks getting a start while the entire squads of teams outside of the "big seven" are largely ignored.

It did change for a bit a few years back around when Ricky Lambert and the like started to get in squads but it drives me mental when the likes of Luke Shaw or Lallana are deemed not good enough when at clubs like Southampton, then are immediately in every squad once they sign for a glamour club.

I don't watch the likes of Bournemouth, Burnley, West Ham closely enough to know who's good but surely you'd have someone like Mark Noble, Ryan Shawcross, Shelvey or Defoe (who's rightfully back in now) with hundreds of top flight games behind them rather than the latest bench-warming wonderkid? Jack Rodwell's an excellent example of a XXXXXXe player who was deemed good when at a good club then deemed XXXXXXe when he left.

Tin foil hat and that but the media have a hell of a lot of power when it comes to the England team, and people’s perception of them.
IP: Logged
Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 13/10/2017 07:53

At last - someone talikng sense

 
"
“Needed” is past tense?
There was a need in the past."

He was still wrong though surely?, Sweden needed to win, France didn't need to win to get through at all. The fact that Sweden got beat proved that they didn't need to win. They only needed to win if they were points behind. They were not.
IP: Logged
Marvanelli Posted on 13/10/2017 08:55

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Exiled, Bilic is correct. France went into their last game without being certain of a place at Russia. Therefore, to ensure they made it to Russia they needed to win to cement that. Results ended up proving they didn't NEED to win, but that's hindsight.

Bilic is spot on in what he said.
IP: Logged
Derek_Duvall Posted on 13/10/2017 11:09

At last - someone talikng sense

 
It reminds me of Armstrong when he was at Boro. Hardly got a look in whilst here... soon as he joined Southampton he was never out of the squad.

And it Maddren and Craggs had played for anyone else they would have won dozens of caps.
IP: Logged
hard_ Posted on 13/10/2017 11:17

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Derek, that statement about David Armstrong is just incorrect.
IP: Logged
Derek_Duvall Posted on 13/10/2017 11:19

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Well it's not, but carry on. For years we touted him for inclusion and he got a couple of caps; his first being against an Australian eleven on an end of season tour.

He got a handful more and drifted in and out of the squad when there was no better left winger out there. As soon as he got his move, like I said, he was a mainstay in the squad. I remember very well.
IP: Logged
Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 13/10/2017 11:22

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Marv, you and Bilic are incorrect, they needed to equal Sweden's result.
IP: Logged
WoodallServices Posted on 13/10/2017 11:34

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Boromart and atypical are spot on. We're going to be playing against the best players on the the planet and you just know that the spine of England's team is going to include Gary Cahill and Jordan Henderson.
Alternatively we could ask the Germans for the phone number of their dealer.[;)]
IP: Logged
boromike85 Posted on 13/10/2017 11:34

At last - someone talikng sense

 
People lose interest, especially in the friendlies and qualifiers because they are meaningless. Every game is a "should win this one comfortably". We are better than all of the teams in our group every time with occasionally one other decent team. It's just boring like the early rounds of the league cup. Then whenever we come up against anyone half decent we get beat.

The qualification system needs to change so teams are playing meaningful competitive games. I'm not convinced the UEFA Nations League format is enough.

Maybe for the next tournament put all of the group winners of this tournament in a league and let them play against each other for a trophy. They can qualify automatically. The rest of UEFAs places can qualify via another method with the top qualifiers winning promotion to the league and the bottom 3/4 dropping into the qualifiers for the next tournament.

IP: Logged
hard_ Posted on 13/10/2017 11:36

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Derek, that he was a fantastic player is not in dispute.

He got one cap at Middlesbrough, and two at Southampton.To claim he was almost ban ever present in the England squad whilst at Southampton is not correct
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 13/10/2017 11:54

At last - someone talikng sense

 
People saying 'yeah but Gareth's qualified where other England managers have failed'.

Look at the recent failures to qualify:

1994 - was a World Cup of 24 teams, since increased in size to 32 and soon to be to 48 for the 2026 world cup. We will never fail to qualify for a world cup ever again, you heard it here first. No manager getting England to a world cup has 'done well', their job hasn't even started.

2008 - 16 teams qualified, since increased to 24 and frankly for a large European nation it should be virtually impossible not to qualify in future.

Yes someone will point out Holland's recent failure but believe me their fans are not best pleased right now either. And they're a much smaller country than England with an inferior domestic league.
IP: Logged
lionhunter Posted on 13/10/2017 12:13

At last - someone talking sense

 
It's the manner of how weve played in a lot if the games to how we know we can and should be playing .
Despite the defeat to Germany after that game things looked positive .We haven't been convincing in a lot if games , yet we've had an easy group AGAIN compared to others .What usually happens is we win win the group not getting out of second gear , then we qualify get through that group then get knocked out in a one on one with a decent team a team. Which generally on paper is a 50 50 game or even a game where we are slight favourites .
We try to adapt to combat the opposition instead of letting them worry about us .
Like this one up front other teams do it and we copied .
Italy done years ago because they a
Had a lack of top striker they might have two really good and one decent so they weren't going to okay them in the same game .They played to what they had at their disposal and people followed like sheep especially if they ended up going far or winning it .
Spain had a poor forward like one year and played without strikers and people were asking the question should we start doing it ? And was the way for us to go forward ? [:D]
IP: Logged
RC92 Posted on 13/10/2017 12:25

At last - someone talikng sense

 
"1 in 4 prem players is eligible for England. It's a sad state of affairs"
-----

Maybe the problem isn't the amount of English players in the Premier League, but the lack of English players experiencing other top flight leagues.

IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 13/10/2017 12:31
Edited On: 13/10/2017 12:32
At last - someone talikng sense

 
"Maybe the problem isn't the amount of English players in the Premier League, but the lack of English players experiencing other top flight leagues."

This is something that IMHO should be addressed. The likelihood of the number of foreign players in the PL diminishing any time soon is slim even following Brexit, so we should be encouraging our 'top' and 'not even top' players to go and play abroad. However this might be trickier after Brexit?

The question is - why don't they? They can earn way more here and don't even need to play every week, and none of them speak other languages.

I firmly believe the only way to improve the national team is to weaken the Premier League, and that will never happen.
IP: Logged
Derek_Duvall Posted on 13/10/2017 12:39

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I said he was never out of the squad Hard!
IP: Logged
atypical_boro Posted on 13/10/2017 12:41
Edited On: 13/10/2017 12:42
At last - someone talikng sense

 
hard, the fact he only got 2 caps at Southampton doesn't mean he wasn't always in the squad. You only had 1 sub in those days but I think the squads were still 20+?

That said I wasn't around in 1980 so I can't say who is correct.
IP: Logged
hard_ Posted on 13/10/2017 12:44

At last - someone talikng sense

 
I know you did Derek, and you are wrong.

I'm also correcting you on how many and when he got his caps.
IP: Logged
hard_ Posted on 13/10/2017 12:54

At last - someone talikng sense

 
Have a look here

Link: Not Often In The Squad
IP: Logged
Marvanelli Posted on 13/10/2017 13:15

At last - someone talikng sense

 
'Marv, you and Bilic are incorrect, they needed to equal Sweden's result.'

Yet France and Sweden were playing at the same time, therefore, Bilic was correct in what he was saying.
IP: Logged
fungus Posted on 13/10/2017 16:07

At last - someone talikng sense

 
No way was Armstrong a regular in the England squad.

Good website that by the way Hard_
IP: Logged
Previous Thread  |  Start New Thread  |  Top Of Board  |  Top Of Thread  |  Next Thread



Home  |Message Board  |  Top of Board  |  Login  |  Register


Copyright © 2008 to 2017 Fansonline.net Ltd

FansOnline.net Ltd
Unit 7
Brentnall Center
Gilkes Street
Middlesbrough
Cleveland
TS1 5AP
Fansonline Home | About Fansonline | Contact Fansonline | Advertise On Fansonline | Privacy Policy | TOS
10.0.166.213