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mac_ Posted on 07/04/2020 17:27
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Edited On: 07/04/2020 17:28
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"Some years ago I had the very good luck to fall into the hands of a totally useless doctor. It was hell, and nearly worse than that, but it taught me one of the most important lessons of my life. He was charming, grey-haired, smooth and beautifully dressed. He was standing in for my usual GP, a shabbier, more abrasive man.
I went to him with a troubling, persistent pain in a tender place. He prescribed an antibiotic. Days passed. It did not work. The pain grew worse. He declared that in that case I needed surgery, and the specialist to whom he sent me agreed with barely a glance. I was on the conveyor belt to the operating table.
In those days I believed, as so many do, in the medical profession. I was awed by their qualifications. Yet the prospect of a rather nasty operation filled me with gloom and doubt. As I waited miserably for the anaesthetist in the huge London hospital to which I had been sent, a new doctor appeared. I braced myself for another session of being asked ‘Does this hurt?’ and replying, between clenched teeth, that yes it blinking well did. But this third man was different. He did not ask me pointlessly if it hurt. He knew it did. He was, crucially, a thinking man who did not take for granted what he was told.
He looked at my notes. He actually read them, which I don’t think anyone else ever had. He swore under his breath. He hurried from the room, only to return shortly afterwards to say I should get dressed and go home. The operation was cancelled. All I needed was a different antibiotic, which he – there and then – prescribed and which cured the problem in three days. He was furious, and managed to convey tactfully that the original prescription had been incompetent and wrong.
The whole miserable business had been a dismal and frightening mistake. He was sorry. Heaven knows what would have happened if Providence had not brought that third doctor into the room. I still shudder slightly to think of it. But the point was this. A mere title, a white coat, a smooth manner, a winning way with long words and technical jargon, will never again be enough for me.
It never, ever does any harm to question decisions which you think are wrong. If they are right, then no harm will be done. They will be able to deal with your questions. If they are, in fact, wrong, you could save everyone a lot of trouble.

And so here I am, asking bluntly – is the closedown of the country the right answer to the coronavirus? I’ll be accused of undermining the NHS and threatening public health and all kinds of other conformist rubbish. But I ask you to join me, because if we have this wrong we have a great deal to lose.
I don’t just address this plea to my readers. I think my fellow journalists should ask the same questions. I think MPs of all parties should ask them when they are urged tomorrow to pass into law a frightening series of restrictions on ancient liberties and vast increases in police and state powers.
Did you know that the Government and Opposition had originally agreed that there would not even be a vote on these measures? Even Vladimir Putin might hesitate before doing anything so blatant. If there is no serious rebellion against this plan in the Commons, then I think we can commemorate tomorrow, March 23, 2020, as the day Parliament died. Yet, as far as I can see, the population cares more about running out of lavatory paper. Praise must go to David Davis and Chris Bryant, two MPs who have bravely challenged this measure.

It may also be the day our economy perished. The incessant coverage of health scares and supermarket panics has obscured the dire news coming each hour from the stock markets and the money exchanges. The wealth that should pay our pensions is shrivelling as share values fade and fall. The pound sterling has lost a huge part of its value. Governments all over the world are resorting to risky, frantic measures which make Jeremy Corbyn’s magic money tree look like sober, sound finance. Much of this has been made far worse by the general shutdown of the planet on the pretext of the coronavirus scare. However bad this virus is (and I will come to that), the feverish panic on the world’s trading floors is at least as bad.

And then there is the Johnson Government’s stumbling retreat from reason into fear. At first, Mr Johnson was true to himself and resisted wild demands to close down the country. But bit by bit he gave in.
The schools were to stay open. Now they are shutting, with miserable consequences for this year’s A-level cohort. Cafes and pubs were to be allowed to stay open, but now that is over. On this logic, shops and supermarkets must be next, with everyone forced to rely on overstrained delivery vans. And that will presumably be followed by hairdressers, dry cleaners and shoe repairers.
How long before we need passes to go out in the streets, as in any other banana republic? As for the grotesque, bullying powers to be created on Monday, I can only tell you that you will hate them like poison by the time they are imposed on you.

All the crudest weapons of despotism, the curfew, the presumption of guilt and the power of arbitrary arrest, are taking shape in the midst of what used to be a free country. And we, who like to boast of how calm we are in a crisis, seem to despise our ancient hard-bought freedom and actually want to rush into the warm, firm arms of Big Brother.
Imagine, police officers forcing you to be screened for a disease, and locking you up for 48 hours if you object. Is this China or Britain? Think how this power could be used against, literally, anybody.
The Bill also gives Ministers the authority to ban mass gatherings. It will enable police and public health workers to place restrictions on a person’s ‘movements and travel’, ‘activities’ and ‘contact with others’.
Many court cases will now take place via video-link, and if a coroner suspects someone has died of coronavirus there will be no inquest. They say this is temporary. They always do.

Well, is it justified? There is a document from a team at Imperial College in London which is being used to justify it. It warns of vast numbers of deaths if the country is not subjected to a medieval curfew.
But this is all speculation. It claims, in my view quite wrongly, that the coronavirus has ‘comparable lethality’ to the Spanish flu of 1918, which killed at least 17 million people and mainly attacked the young.
What can one say to this? In a pungent letter to The Times last week, a leading vet, Dick Sibley, cast doubt on the brilliance of the Imperial College scientists, saying that his heart sank when he learned they were advising the Government. Calling them a ‘team of doom-mongers’, he said their advice on the 2001 foot-and-mouth outbreak ‘led to what I believe to be the unnecessary slaughter of millions of healthy cattle and sheep’ until they were overruled by the then Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King.

He added: ‘I hope that Boris Johnson, Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance show similar wisdom. They must ensure that measures are proportionate, balanced and practical.’
Avoidable deaths are tragic, but each year there are already many deaths, especially among the old, from complications of flu leading to pneumonia.
The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) tells me that the number of flu cases and deaths due to flu-related complications in England alone averages 17,000 a year. This varies greatly each winter, ranging from 1,692 deaths last season (2018/19) to 28,330 deaths in 2014/15.

The DHSC notes that many of those who die from these diseases have underlying health conditions, as do almost all the victims of coronavirus so far, here and elsewhere. As the experienced and knowledgeable doctor who writes under the pseudonym ‘MD’ in the Left-wing magazine Private Eye wrote at the start of the panic: ‘In the winter of 2017-18, more than 50,000 excess deaths occurred in England and Wales, largely unnoticed.’
Nor is it just respiratory diseases that carry people off too soon. In the Government’s table of ‘deaths considered avoidable’, it lists 31,307 deaths from cardiovascular diseases in England and Wales for 2013, the last year for which they could give me figures.

This, largely the toll of unhealthy lifestyles, was out of a total of 114,740 ‘avoidable’ deaths in that year. To put all these figures in perspective, please note that every human being in the United Kingdom suffers from a fatal condition – being alive.

About 1,600 people die every day in the UK for one reason or another. A similar figure applies in Italy and a much larger one in China. The coronavirus deaths, while distressing and shocking, are not so numerous as to require the civilised world to shut down transport and commerce, nor to surrender centuries-old liberties in an afternoon.

We are warned of supposedly devastating death rates. But at least one expert, John Ioannidis, is not so sure. He is Professor of Medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University in California. He says the data are utterly unreliable because so many cases are going unrecorded.
He warns here

‘This evidence fiasco creates tremendous uncertainty about the risk of dying from Covid-19. Reported case fatality rates, like the official 3.4 per cent rate from the World Health Organisation, cause horror and are meaningless.’ In only one place – aboard the cruise ship Diamond Princess – has an entire closed community been available for study. And the death rate there – just one per cent – is distorted because so many of those aboard were elderly. The real rate, adjusted for a wide age range, could be as low as 0.05 per cent and as high as one per cent.

As Prof Ioannidis says: ‘That huge range markedly affects how severe the pandemic is and what should be done. A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05 per cent is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.’
Epidemic disasters have been predicted many times before and have not been anything like as bad as feared.

The former editor of The Times, Sir Simon Jenkins, recently listed these unfulfilled scares: bird flu did not kill the predicted millions in 1997. In 1999 it was Mad Cow Disease and its human variant, vCJD, which was predicted to kill half a million. Fewer than 200 in fact died from it in the UK.

The first Sars outbreak of 2003 was reported as having ‘a 25 per cent chance of killing tens of millions’ and being ‘worse than Aids’. In 2006, another bout of bird flu was declared ‘the first pandemic of the 21st Century’.
There were similar warnings in 2009, that swine flu could kill 65,000. It did not. The Council of Europe described the hyping of the 2009 pandemic as ‘one of the great medical scandals of the century’. Well, we shall no doubt see.

But while I see very little evidence of a pandemic, and much more of a PanicDemic, I can witness on my daily round the slow strangulation of dozens of small businesses near where I live and work, and the catastrophic collapse of a flourishing society, all these things brought on by a Government policy made out of fear and speculation rather than thought.

Much that is closing may never open again. The time lost to schoolchildren and university students – in debt for courses which have simply ceased to be taught – is irrecoverable, just as the jobs which are being wiped out will not reappear when the panic at last subsides.
We are told that we must emulate Italy or China, but there is no evidence that the flailing, despotic measures taken in these countries reduced the incidence of coronavirus. The most basic error in science is to assume that because B happens after A, that B was caused by A.

There may, just, be time to reconsider. I know that many of you long for some sort of coherent opposition to be voiced. The people who are paid to be the Opposition do not seem to wish to earn their rations, so it is up to the rest of us. I despair that so many in the commentariat and politics obediently accept what they are being told. I have lived long enough, and travelled far enough, to know that authority is often wrong and cannot always be trusted.
I also know that dissent at this time will bring me abuse and perhaps worse. But I am not saying this for fun, or to be ‘contrarian’ –that stupid word which suggests that you are picking an argument for fun. This is not fun.
This is our future, and if I did not lift my voice to speak up for it now, even if I do it quite alone, I should consider that I was not worthy to call myself English or British, or a journalist, and that my parents’ generation had wasted their time saving the freedom and prosperity which they handed on to me after a long and cruel struggle whose privations and griefs we can barely imagine."
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sixthswan Posted on 07/04/2020 17:38
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I know. I'm predictable. You thought I'd respond this way. You were right.

Another view....(shorter read).

A bloke experienced bad healthcare advice.

He conflates this to mean that we shouldn't trust experts, even during a global crisis. Even though an expert spotted the mistake in his diagnosis originally.

Then he goes on to list all the problems that a shutdown causes. Like nobody had ever thought of these consequences. Like he has opened our eyes to what is glaringly obvious.

Yet he offers no valid solutions, other than resistance.

So what do we do. Keep life as it is and kill a few hundred thousand people in the UK, or more? While also overwhelming our healthcare system and killing many more collaterally.
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kendalfox Posted on 07/04/2020 17:56
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Believe what you believe
and the acceptance of the truth is hard coming from political circles
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sixthswan Posted on 07/04/2020 17:59
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Here are some other things Hitchens don't agree with:

Abortion.

Sex Education - saying anyone who agrees with it is a paedo.

Birth Control.

Engelbert Humperdinck - responsible for the Great Moral Decline of the 1960s.

Skimmed and semi-skimmed milk.

Anonymity for rape victims. Also it can't be rape if you're in a relationship, or have had several relationships. Nice.

Premarital sex.

Poverty. It doesn't exist apparently.

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astleyfox Posted on 07/04/2020 18:06
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Youre right Sixy. Blokes a twunt.
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mac_ Posted on 07/04/2020 18:23
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The second reply is the predictable one. Odds on.
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ArleseyFoxile Posted on 07/04/2020 18:35
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He does make some valid points.

We should continue to challenge the political classes and scientific opinion I agree.

Freedom should not be lightly surrendered.

However this is not SARS, AIDS or Mad Cow Disease or the flu. This is a novel coronavirus which has no precedent in terms of it's infectiousness and case fatality rate.

It can be beaten and society will need to find a way to recover and I believe it will.

I'm off to set fire to a 5G mast now for my daily exercise
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ArleseyFoxile Posted on 07/04/2020 18:45
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Edited On: 07/04/2020 18:46
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Independent clinical healthcare advice here.





Link: John Campbell
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TheNeuroscientist Posted on 07/04/2020 18:46
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Peter Hitchens is much like Jordan Peterson.

1/3 of what they say is pure cuckoo weird drivel that is bewildering coming from anyone professing to have a brain.

1/3 of what they say is contrarian for the sake of it nonsense that is lazily thought out opinion for money.

1/3 of what they say is fascinating, enlightening, thought-provoking, insightful, mind changing brilliance.

This article is the second one of these. He's seen the way people are thinking and thought to himself, 'aha, I'm going to say the oppoisite and get myself some publicity'. Yawn.
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harwichfox Posted on 07/04/2020 19:48
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Hitchens is a lapsed socialist and Marxist (his brother still was until he died in 2011) and like some other lapsed Marxists (Frank Chappel eg) went to the extreme right of Ghenghis Khan and became a renta gob for right wing media and anyone else who'd care to have him and doesn't really both to give any facts to back up his rabid views because he's Peter and he's right. I could go on but all the info is out there if you want to read it.
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Surffers Posted on 07/04/2020 19:48
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The lockdown increased cases and deaths in Europe, fact .

Taiwan has protected it's people and economic well being with no lockdown and only has 77 cases and 1 death , given how close is it to China you have to wonder just where Europe is failing .

Start thinking for yourself and refuse to be lead like sheep by those who have failed.



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astleyfox Posted on 07/04/2020 20:00
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I was informed earlier today, that an old work mate died this morning, after contracting corona ten days ago. Healthy, ordinary bloke, in the gym three times a week etc. Leaves three kids behind. He didnt die of fukkin flu, you retard. This is proof enough for me. It could get any of us.
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Surffers Posted on 07/04/2020 20:05
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Sad then ask yourself why Australia has had less than 50 deaths in 6,000 cases .

Stop being lead and start thinking for yourself.

The flu kills between 260,000 and 650,000 world wide every year this virus works like the flu because it s a flu , end of.

Look up Hong Kong flu deaths or Spanish flu etc.
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Fugazi Posted on 07/04/2020 20:07
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Why has Taiwan succeeded without a lockdown ? Apparently it has a brilliant, state of the art tracing and testing system which has been well implemented. It hasn't needed a
lockdown. Countries like the UK are different unfortunately.
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Unicum Posted on 07/04/2020 20:07
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"1/3 of what they say is fascinating, enlightening, thought-provoking, insightful, mind changing brilliance."

Even if we debate the 3rds, the quarters of the halves, it'll be no good for many on here. They prefer to focus on..

i. Is he a right-winger?
ii. Has he ever said anything remotely a bit odd?
iii. Can I easily just laugh everything off, because of points i and ii?

People are strange.
You have people on here calling themselves socialists who reckon they're for the oppressed and are anti-war, and anti-rich etc. Yet they'll openly vote for a millionaire socialist, who never gave a damn about the working class of the country and whose lies lead to an estimated million deaths of 'the oppressed' in Iraq. Oh....and the politician in question has never uttered an interesting, inspiring, thought-provoking thought in his public life. Not one iota of brilliance.

But it's okay. He'll be allowed on YouTube for the rest of his life.
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LeicesterRino Posted on 07/04/2020 20:26
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I really hope that this doesn’t prove to be a big over reaction. If it does, the medical profession will never get the public trust back let alone the government and medical experts
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astleyfox Posted on 07/04/2020 20:29
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Well ex-fakin Scuse me! What more proof do you need? Ordinary bloke catches disease in ordinary surroundings, then slowly suffocates. The more carriers walking around, the more ordinary blokes, and ladies, are going to get it.
Being deep in your fathers business has made you blinkered. All you see are balance sheets.
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Surffers Posted on 07/04/2020 20:55
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People die of the flu, start asking why countries like Taiwan have controlled the flu unlike Europe.

20,000 people die of hypothermia in the UK every year ask why.

There are around 48,000 deaths from sepsis in the UK each year and 11 million world wide , did you care.

Try to stop being hysterical over this and start asking why are Europes leaders so hopeless.
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hackneyfox Posted on 07/04/2020 23:35
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'a leading vet'
[:o)]
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sabredunce Posted on 08/04/2020 05:56
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University College London says closing schools has really no effect, see the link.

'I really hope that this doesn’t prove to be a big over reaction. If it does, the medical profession will never get the public trust back let alone the government and medical experts'

^^ spoken for truth.

Link: Worth a read
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astleyfox Posted on 08/04/2020 07:10
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Im not hysterical, ffs. So, how about the frontline health staff that are losing their lives? They are exposed to much worse than “flu”. They never die of flu. Show me some more numbers. Damn lies and statistics.
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Surffers Posted on 08/04/2020 07:21
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This is from the World Health Organisation

Seasonal influenza is characterized by a sudden onset of fever, cough (usually dry), headache, muscle and joint pain, severe malaise (feeling unwell), sore throat and a runny nose. The cough can be severe and can last 2 or more weeks. Most people recover from fever and other symptoms within a week without requiring medical attention. But influenza can cause severe illness or death especially in people at high risk (see below).

Illnesses range from mild to severe and even death. Hospitalization and death occur mainly among high risk groups. Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths.
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astleyfox Posted on 08/04/2020 07:33
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So? Did another two doctors and my mate not kick the bucket yesterday? Of flu? Why didnt any of them die of it last year? Stop quoting reams of statistics, and act on what you are seeing with your own eyes. Stop acting like a sheep, with the world wide web as leader of your flock.
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Surffers Posted on 08/04/2020 07:42
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The flu has killed millions over the years and the type of flu changes every year, accept this is nothing new.

Try this and open your other eye.

The Asian Flu was a pandemic outbreak of H2N2 avian influenza that originated in China in 1957, spread worldwide that same year during which an influenza vaccine was developed, lasted until 1958 and caused between one and four million deaths.

The fact is thanks to cheap international travel it's very easy now to spread influenza, stop being lead by the hysterical media.
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Adumass Posted on 08/04/2020 10:41
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sorry about your friend astley.
and don't engage with surffers, he is only interested in himself. only if he is hospitalised will he take this seriously.


"the medical profession will never get the public trust back " if this proves to be an overreaction...why?
it was government, their scientists and epidemiologists who are leading the advisory, not medics?
all the medics are interested in is protecting the hospitals from overload and protecting their staff.
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Drew-Peacock Posted on 08/04/2020 10:52
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Lots of medics on social media/TV expressing their opinions
The public won't differentiate between them and "government experts"
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astleyfox Posted on 08/04/2020 11:13
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Just heard a good statistic toastie. Nine London bus drivers have died of corona. Coincidence? Would flu have killed them, anyway? Would they have died if not exposed to carriers? Keep calm and carry on.
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Drew-Peacock Posted on 08/04/2020 11:56
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Workers, not all drivers
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Surffers Posted on 08/04/2020 20:00
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Flu will kill that's a fact but some have a better immune systems than others that's why Sweden has not over reacted and gone into lock down, they will be better able to cope with the next wave .

80% of victims will have mild symptoms and never get this again.

No mass deaths in OZ out of 6,000 cases so ask why Europe cannot get it act together.
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