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mac_ Posted on 10/09/2019 11:20
Oh ffs -please remain

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Some of you on here and in this Country have seriously lost the plot.

I wish we would just remain as per your manic wishes (cultivated by fear and propaganda, and probably some sort of chemical substance)
Then we can go back to the lovely idyllic situation as part of the EU that you all crave.

‘TLER!
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 11:23
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Please tell us why we should Leave, as per your manic wishes (cultivated by fear and propaganda, and probably some sort of chemical substance). Then we can go back to the lovely idyllic situation pre-EU that you all crave.
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mac_ Posted on 10/09/2019 11:27
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Dunno. Thought the Country voted for it.

No doubt you’ll tell me different.
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 11:38
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37% of the country voted for some undetermined form of Brexit and without any timescale. But ignore that.

Why do you want to Leave so much?

I'm not rabid about Remain. The EU has faults, but so does our UK system. We are a sovereign nation as things stand, our financial contribution (0.7% of GDP) is outweighed by the benefits and I'm not opposed to freedom of movement of people.

What is your stance?
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mac_ Posted on 10/09/2019 11:42
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If we leave it’s easier to gas Jews.

‘TLER!
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malifox Posted on 10/09/2019 11:44
Oh ffs -please remain

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no chance mac-i'm off to foxestalk,more my demographic....[8D]
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 11:46
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Other than that silly comment. Why do you really want to Leave?
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Surffers Posted on 10/09/2019 11:48
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Why do you want to stay on second thoughts who cares the Leavers won after 44 years of EU failures .
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mac_ Posted on 10/09/2019 11:54
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Ok to be honest, I don’t give f’ck if we’re in or out of the EU.....
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 12:01
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Thanks Mac.

That at last confirms what I thought. Always guessed you were playing Devil's Advocate on the issue.
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Surffers Posted on 10/09/2019 12:05
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Great you have converted him to I don't give a sod now try the 17.4 million that did.
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malifox Posted on 10/09/2019 12:06
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rather our 'donations' to the eu/foreign aid-£78 to china for clean water,millions to the sub continent to eradicate poverty,off to the moon soon,should be redirected to the elderly social care costs in 'our'country,never going to happen,the leftie class warriors,mcdonnell,oadlad,hackney will tell them to sell up and join the 'great march' to enlightenment,che 'jamas required....[8D]
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 12:09
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Not looking to convert anyone. We are all entitled to an opinion. We are all to expect that opinion to be scrutinised.

Tax payers take priority though [:D]
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 12:34
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Don't think we'll be leaving soon.

Berkow going means that parliament votes in a new Speaker.

More remain than leave in parliament so that means.....
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ClaphamFox Posted on 10/09/2019 12:40
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We will very likely be leaving soon, BBB. Either October or January. There isn't really a plausible way for it not to happen.
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kendalfox Posted on 10/09/2019 12:42
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 10/09/2019 12:45
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The beall and end-all of it is WHY did we put this to the country in the first place
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 12:46
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All depends on the next GE.

If the Tories mix it up with the Brexit Party and moderate Conservative voters and traditional Labour voters mop it up - then Brexit is soon. But for the Tory/BP alliance to happen, No Deal needs to be the stance.

I'd be surprised if that was the outcome. Not shocked. Just surprised.

Tories alone in a GE will be struggling against the rest, especially the BP. Because they have shown themselves to be immoderate and incapable of governing.

Does the electorate care more about Brexit, than the sovereignty of Parliament? Might be a close call...sadly.
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 12:49
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Kendal. It was put to the country, because Cameron wanted to silence the small section of the Conservative Party, which was most Eurosceptic. There wasn't a huge feeling in the country at large, that we needed to have a Brexit Referendum. He failed.
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ClaphamFox Posted on 10/09/2019 12:58
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 10/09/2019 12:59
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Farage wants Brexit and he knows that if the Brexit Party goes head-to-head in marginals against Tories it could open the way to the seat going to a remain candidate. I don't think he'll do it. There will be some kind of alliance/non-aggression pact between the Tories and the Brexit Party.

Labour is in a really, really bad spot. Atrocious leadership and no clear identity on Brexit. In a straight fight between Corbyn and Johnson, the majority of voters will go for de Pfeffel every time. Labour will almost certainly lose votes from leavers and remainers to the Brexit Party and the Lib Dems respectively, which will mean the Tories win outright or they'll form a coalition with the Brexit Party. Either way, Brexit very likely occurs soon - unless something very dramatic occurs to change the situation.
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sydrock Posted on 10/09/2019 13:00
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Sixthswan, so of the other 63% a hand full voted stay and the others were too bone idle or smug or what ever to vote, now that lot are screaming we want to vote, you can rely on us if you give us another vote.
And these are the ones who you support!!!!
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sydrock Posted on 10/09/2019 13:09
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Kendall, 'Call me Dave' got it wrong, we voted to leave and the ones who didn't are squealing.
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 13:09
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Clapham, perhaps the drama may be an alliance/non-aggression pact between the Deal/Remain parties and MPs. That does afterall, reflect the majority view in the nation as a whole.

All up in the air at the moment.
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ClaphamFox Posted on 10/09/2019 13:14
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That would indeed be dramatic. However, I can't see the Lib Dems agreeing that with Labour before an election. They might agree to form a coalition with them after an election, but that's not the same. If there was a pre-election Labour/Lib Dem alliance/non-aggression pact, then yes, that could change the dynamic.
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 13:17
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Sydrock.

In a referendum, you either choose to change something, or you don't. So 63% chose not to alter the status quo.

Which isn't a ringing endorsement of Brexit is it. Nor is it a mandate for Remain. I accept that...

The referendum offered no guidance on what form Brexit should take, nor when it should occur and all the indications are that most people in the country, do not support No Deal.

So I feel I have a right to question things - yes. My personal opinion is that our leaders don't even know how to deliver Brexit. So I feel impelled to question Brexit, which was only ushered into our minds via a public consultation.

Democracy isn't damaged in any way if this continues to be questioned. Because the referendum offerd no guidance or timetable.
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foxyDP Posted on 10/09/2019 13:29
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 10/09/2019 13:31
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" I'm not rabid about remain"
I've read some carp on here over the years but . . . .

Wonder what eggs thinks of it all ?
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 13:32
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Me and you both foxy.
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 13:35
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Clappers i bet you a fiver we still haven't left in April February and if a Remainer becomes speaker an additional fiver we are still in the EU this time next year.

And sixxy, bore off man, take a break!
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 13:38
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BBB. No thanks.
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ClaphamFox Posted on 10/09/2019 13:47
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You're on, BBB [:D]
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 13:50
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[^][^][:P]
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foxinabox Posted on 10/09/2019 14:21
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But you've already staked a fiver with me on the basis that we would leave, BBB. I don't think we will.

Clapham, please explain your theory to me of how it's going to happen, other than Boris getting a majority at the next election, which is rather fanciful.

Boris (or Corbyn) will not get a deal which comes anywhere close to being ratified by Parliament. No deal has already been outlawed - a combination of the most cunning and the most stupid MP's have seen to this.

A second referendum on the basis of leave or remain represents the Brexiteers best chance - except that Parliament won't allow this, they'll insist on splitting the leave vote or having no deal against remain.

If we were to get a second referendum on the basis of leave or remain and win it, then Parliament would get up to its old tricks and instantly ban no deal. No deal = no leverage = the EU gives us nothing = Parliament won't pass a deal = the EU will continue to grant us extension after extension = people eventually get fed up and lose interest = Parliament revokes Article 50 on the basis of 'Brexit uncertainty' which is crippling - or said to be crippling - our business. I don't see any other way it will play out.
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Adumass Posted on 10/09/2019 15:04
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"Clappers i bet you a fiver we still haven't left in April February "


what if we leave in march? who wins [:D]
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Adumass Posted on 10/09/2019 15:06
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a two question ref?

1. leave or remain?
2. if leave, with or without a deal?

i suppose then you go round the merry-go-around about whose deal. but at least there is a clean mandate.
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 15:13
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Edited On: 10/09/2019 15:14
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Better with a three question ref.

Remain
Leave Deal
Leave No Deal

But I would argue that the original referendum was actually ran on the prospect of the first two questions and not the third (in the minds of most of the electorate).

What if all three questions polled 33% each?
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pen3boy Posted on 10/09/2019 15:14
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Come on, sickswan, give over with this "37% voted leave" nonsense. Even less voted to remain.

If you couldn't be bothered to vote ... you don't count.
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 15:14
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Times have changed FIAB!
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sixthswan Posted on 10/09/2019 15:17
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Don't get too hung-up on the 37%. It is a fact and I'm aware of the lower Remain figure. The point stands though, 37% is not a glowing endorsement for Leave and to change the status quo. I voted. My conscience is clear.
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sydrock Posted on 10/09/2019 15:22
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 10/09/2019 15:24
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Not quite sixth, we were asked:
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.

Then tick the box of either:
Remain a member of the EU.
or
Leave the EU.

But, if we were given this article to read, we would have gone mad any way!

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/

Linky no worky, above does!


Link: B Rex
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foxinabox Posted on 10/09/2019 15:27
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The thing is that everybody wants a deal, unless they're utter lunatics. It would be hard to explain the fact that no deal = no leverage to ordinary voters.

I think you're idea of a two question referendum has it's merits, but far too many people would just vote leave with a deal as being the most sensible option, when in fact it would be the least sensible option.
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foxyDP Posted on 10/09/2019 19:05
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It was 52% of the votes cast and the turnout was high. 72% of the electorate cared enough to vote - those that chose not to vote don't count.
52% is an endorsement to leave and change.
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bnet Posted on 10/09/2019 19:20
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don't bother foxy, all the normal people on here know your correct, Sixthswans just talks out of his RS. Another on Spice !
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malifox Posted on 10/09/2019 19:27
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eff all this pseudo,marxist,maoisat,che shyte,lets talk soccer,will maddison get a kick tonight?.....[8D]
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kendalfox Posted on 10/09/2019 19:58
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No
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harwichfox Posted on 10/09/2019 20:16
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16,141 million voted remain hardly a resounding victory its like trying to take half your family on holiday to a place they hate.
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RoyalBerkshireFox Posted on 10/09/2019 20:56
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I like what Adumas proposes. But is the second question open just to those who voted leave or to every voter?
The idea of leave with deal/leave without deal/remain would split the leave vote but would be unfair as Remain would win and the leavers would never accept it.

Sad thing is, until Cameron bottled and gave in to a referendum, most people weren’t that bothered.
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Unicum Posted on 10/09/2019 21:07
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 10/09/2019 21:14
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Some people will do all they can to get lost in a complexity that's not that difficult. I always thought the parameters of the referendum were set up wrongly. Always felt that with the closeness of the result, some compromise was necessary. But it looks like there's no compromise acceptable to the EU without trampling on many of the reasons why people voted to leave, certainly when dealing with someone like May. Not much in the way of compromise then, and in the UK, a determination to never really enact the decision even if it was in the last manifestos of the two main parties. Lots of obfuscation, smoke, mirrors, circus, mainly because people are determined to get their own way. Bit like playing football with the kids who were always cheating and never honest. As for the latest Adolf Hitler line on here.... Bonkers. And you caannts think some of us wear tin hats?

A couple of nuggets still shine through. A democratic decision. Promised to be honoured, but clearly not being honoured.


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bnet Posted on 10/09/2019 21:32
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Harwich, if Leicester win 5-4 on Saturday, did we win or is it debatable ?
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 21:44
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And what if remain wins a second vote by a similar margin? What then?

Albeit I think some of the more blinkered remainers don’t understand how many people who voted remain with a small r last time would now vote leave.

Partly because of their aggressive intellectual snobbery.
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Unicum Posted on 10/09/2019 21:53
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This is the precedent they are settling Bill. If one referendum isn't respected, why should another one be respected? Nothing wrong with campaigning for something after you've lost. But the democratic decision has to be implemented first.

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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 21:57
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Ain’t that the truth.
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Unicum Posted on 10/09/2019 21:57
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Of course, we can't get this through to some people. I imagine it's because we're too thick to communicate well enough.
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billsballbag Posted on 10/09/2019 22:09
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Racist and thick if you please.
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hackneyfox Posted on 10/09/2019 22:21
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But we can't implement the first because there isn't a majority in the house for any one form of leave. The remainers will vote against, as will the ERG and others with No Deal leanings.
If May had eased her red lines she may have got a better deal, but whilst some remainers may have voted for that there would be an even bigger problem with the ERG grouping. May didn't want to split her party.
Boris doesn't seem too bothered about who leaves the party, strange though it's the centre-right he's kicking out rather than the ERG when at heart he's meant to be the former.
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Unicum Posted on 10/09/2019 22:27
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Dear Hackney. At the time of the referendum, at least on paper, there was a majority in parliament. It could've got through..... With a leader genuinely committed to doing it. But here we are where we are....
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buz_not_buzz Posted on 10/09/2019 22:48
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Boris doesn't care who leaves the party because Boris will bend whichever way it takes to hold onto power. Those behind him are more focused & are happy to use & direct him. They want Brexit at any cost, asap preferably without a deal. He wants power under any circumstance. He has gambled that trying to grab the Brexit Party ground whilst using them to weaken previously strong Labour "never vote tory" areas will do the trick even if it means eventual coalition. Losing the centre-right is collateral damage he is happy to accept as he probably rightly believes the majority of Tory voters in key areas want a strong exit direction & the centre-right weaken that. Success though probably depended on getting a General Election called asap (calling it before the 31st irrespective of date) but the other parties saw the trap and rightly have stayed patient. He might still carry it off but it is more difficult now as if he doesn't deliver on the 31st the Brexit party voters are less likely to trust him.
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hackneyfox Posted on 10/09/2019 23:33
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Dear Unicum. After the referendum, even with a leader who was genuinely committed, we couldn't leave as no deal was in place. Unless we left with No Deal but there wasn't a majority for it then.
What do you think this majority of yours wanted? I'm sure you don't know, and clearly the last three years has shown that they didn't/don't.
They all know what they don't want, and here we are where we are ...
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Filbo65 Posted on 11/09/2019 00:12
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Does anyone seriously think that the Brexit party will win even a single seat? All they can do is spilt the leave vote and deny conservative candidates. IMHO.
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Unicum Posted on 11/09/2019 05:07
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I'm pretty certain what the majority of parliament wanted: not to leave.
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Surffers Posted on 11/09/2019 06:02
Oh ffs -please remain
Edited On: 11/09/2019 07:57
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This all comes down to a trade deal the rest is bull, the EU have more flexibility in their attitude to other countries with a FTA it's just the UK they wish to use as a cash cow so made it impossible.
The only answer is Leave and then go back for a trade deal nothing else will work because the eurocrats see the UK as weak and they are right given the scum in Parliament.
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LeicesterRino Posted on 11/09/2019 06:40
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Hackers knows what we all voted for
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bnet Posted on 11/09/2019 06:58
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So what is this deal that the ones who can't accept a democratic vote want ?

Do they know or is it just a sound bite, and an excuse not to leave as voted for ?

Please enlighten us.
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Surffers Posted on 11/09/2019 07:50
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It's the headless chicken thing , they are taken in by the fiction the world's 5th biggest economy needs a bunch of no hopers in Brussels

When one of these remoaners can explain why no other trade group has a Brussels or needs billions every year and dumps it's unemployment problems on its wealthier members I might think they have some valid reason for stopping in .

Try telling America you will form a new parliament and issue them with a bill yearly and new laws for a trade agreement it's time to stop living on your knees .
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Unicum Posted on 11/09/2019 08:48
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People like Hackney... Tend to switch on the cynicism and trust to fit their own agenda. They'll be cynical about something/someone they are opposed to, and overly-forgiving and trusting to those who are acting in the direction that they want to go. Not sure if they are aware of it. But as such, it's not real cynicism or real trust.

As someone who didn't want to leave, I get what motivates it: it's like being dumped by someone you love. She made the decision, I didn't. And now she's telling you, you have to leave. It's natural to use every trick in the book to persuade her otherwise, obfuscate, twist, delay, should we have counselling... Delay, muddy the water, pretend it's not happening, give it time...

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buz_not_buzz Posted on 11/09/2019 08:54
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Yes, Filbo65, I do. Not many perhaps but because of where we are and the way that our exit from the EU is dominating the agenda I think they will pick up some seats.

If Boris had managed to get the General Election called I am sure that they would not have challenged the Tories in many areas but would have gone after the vote in some traditional Labour areas & would (& will) succeed in some. If they don't trust Boris to deliver then I think they will go after (& win) some traditionally Tory seats in strong Leave areas where Labour & the Lib Dems won't get a look in.
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Surffers Posted on 11/09/2019 09:36
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TBP will go after marginal Labour seats they know most working class people are anti EU, Tories will always go back to their party unless they can unseat a Socialist.
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ArleseyFoxile Posted on 11/09/2019 09:45
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Bookies current odds for UK to leave the EU on 31st October:

Yes 23/10
No 3/10

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Filbo65 Posted on 11/09/2019 09:45
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Tenner on it, Buz? [;)]
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ClaphamFox Posted on 11/09/2019 10:31
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Yesterday Corbyn said that if there's a general election Labour will campaign for a better Brexit deal without committing to leave or remain. In other words, the policy is to continue to be trying to appeal to both sides. It's a risky strategy. I expect the Tories and the Lib Dems are both delighted.
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 10:34
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The best deal with the EU which we can get, is the current one. I've not seen a better Deal mentioned yet, anywhere.

Corbyn should forget trying to appeal to Brexit supporters in Labour constituencies. They will never vote for him.
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foxinabox Posted on 11/09/2019 10:44
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Do the bookies know something we don't? At the moment I would consider it highly improbable that we would leave on October 31st, unless the French lose their patience entirely and kick us out.
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hackneyfox Posted on 11/09/2019 11:41
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Rino
I haven’t got a clue what anyone voted for but plenty of people assuming that all those who voted Brexit are happy with No Deal or any deal that just gets us out.
I’m hoping that isn’t the case.
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 11:49
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There is a sizeable amount of people who want Brexit, Deal or No Deal. I can't prove it, but I think there are more people who don't care, have changed their mind from Leave, or want Remain.

Unless those "don't care", mind-changers or Remain voters seek the status quo at the next GE and get out and vote; then we are leaving the EU.
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Adumass Posted on 11/09/2019 12:01
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the strong leader that was needed to get us out in 2016 (who was of course put there by tory mps and members) could have been boris...but at the last minute he decided not to stand.
all part of the game and the plan. as buzz said, he's in this game for one thing and one thing only. and its got nothing to do with brexit.
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hackneyfox Posted on 11/09/2019 12:03
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People like Hackney ....

Is this how you have a discussion in real life?
Someone makes points contrary to how you feel and you then harangue them as an individual rather than discuss.
Used to think you were better than that, clearly wrong but I’m sure that will be me at fault rather than you.
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 12:08
Oh ffs -please remain

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Gove said he wasn't ready. Boris admitted he wasn't ready.

Boris has the smallest majority of any PM since 1924 in his Uxbridge constituency.

Whatever else. It would be funny is Boris lost his seat...what then?
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Drew-Peacock Posted on 11/09/2019 12:48
Oh ffs -please remain

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So who else?
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 12:59
Oh ffs -please remain

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Boris might be off to jail, if he's not careful...
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bnet Posted on 11/09/2019 13:28
Oh ffs -please remain

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So what deal do you loons want ????????????????????
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 13:29
Oh ffs -please remain

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The current deal for this loon please. The one we already have. Before all this Brexit nonsense.
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hackneyfox Posted on 11/09/2019 13:44
Oh ffs -please remain

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The one we currently have.

If we have to leave then one with a Custom's Union, Single Market and a right of Veto.[:D]
That will mean free movement which I don't have a problem with as long as we actually enforce the rules, something which all governments have failed to do.
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sixthswan Posted on 11/09/2019 13:47
Oh ffs -please remain

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Hopefully (obviously we won't) we will see the publication of the Yellowhammer documents by COP today?

The deadline is 11pm today. It's the law...

You know, the stuff that would make the people not want a No Deal Brexit, which the Tories are pushing on behalf of the public.
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Unicum Posted on 11/09/2019 16:02
Oh ffs -please remain

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Oh I'm sorry Hackney, I thought you had no problem ridiculing and dismissing others....[:D]

I wouldn't take it too seriously
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billsballbag Posted on 11/09/2019 16:03
Oh ffs -please remain

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"I can't prove it, but I think there are more people who don't care, have changed their mind from Leave, or want Remain."

Funnily enough more people that i speak to have the opposite view, were happy to vote remain but now want out.

What parliament are gambling on is that people get Brexit lethargy and end up come around to "the sensible" way of thinking....when actually people hate their guts and want to stick it to them even more.
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kendalfox Posted on 11/09/2019 16:56
Oh ffs -please remain

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its all beginning to sound like the pigpen of the parliament on here
Should never have entered into this farce in the first place.
we all knew the EU was Full of shysters hell bent on lining there pockets but blind eyes never see. the European free trade movement was great until big eyes and noses got into the trough.
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mac_ Posted on 11/09/2019 17:00
Oh ffs -please remain

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Sorry mate you can’t say big nose. Think on.
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bnet Posted on 11/09/2019 17:15
Oh ffs -please remain

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l did once but l think l got away with it,
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buz_not_buzz Posted on 11/09/2019 20:08
FAO: Filbo65

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It's a bit early but I'll take that in the spirit of fun rather than pride (I have none). One enough or more (bearing in mind that UKIP even managed 2 in more sedate times!)?
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Filbo65 Posted on 12/09/2019 00:08
FAO: Filbo65

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Just the one.
No defections allowed though – that's how they got their last ones, both of which lost in the next GE... [;)]
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Unicum Posted on 12/09/2019 06:38
FAO: Filbo65

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Anyroad...

According to reports, if you change something, it's likely that there will be a period needed for readjustment. Sometimes, this readjustment period can take up to 6 months.

Probably best if we never change anything then.
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Fugazi Posted on 12/09/2019 20:32
Oh ffs -please remain

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How very true from today's Telegraph...

Brexit has turned us all into Gareth from The Office by Jemima Lewis

Jonathan Reynolds is not the only MP currently channelling Gareth Keenan Credit: Twitter

Labour MP Jonathan Reynolds tweeted a picture of himself this week, sitting alone on the green benches of the prorogued Commons. A bell tinkled in a distant corridor of my brain. There was something familiar about both the tweet itself – “Reporting for duty,” was his caption – and the eagerness of his body language: bottom perched on the front of the bench, hands clasped between the knees, the too-pointy tips of his office brogues pointing outwards in Second Position, his lips pressed together in a self-important smile. Oh my God – it’s Gareth from The Office!

To be fair, Reynolds is not the only MP currently channelling the scrawny, self-aggrandising “team leader” of Wernham Hogg’s sales department. Both sides of the house seem to have been overrun by the spirit of Gareth Keenan: his neediness, his ludicrous vanity, his hyperbolic military metaphors.

The ERG is especially stricken with Gareth-itis, from its chairman Steve Baker (“I will never taste surrender again”) to its vainglorious vox-popper, Mark Francois. “I wouldn’t vote for it if they put a shotgun in my mouth,” declared Francois, puce with pomposity, when presented with Theresa May’s mild-mannered Withdrawal Agreement.

“I was in the Army. I wasn’t trained to lose,” is his perpetual boast, just as Gareth likes to remind us that, as a lieutenant in the Territorial Army, he knows a thing or two about natural authority. (“It’s a direct order: ‘Come with me.’ And they’ll go, ‘Yes, he’s got good leadership skills, let’s all go with him to our certain death.’”)

But you don’t have to be a Brexiteer to be an office bore. John “I will make absolutely no apology to anyone, anywhere, at any time” Bercow positively vibrates with Garethian conceit. There’s a touch of the Swindon curse, too, in Tom Watson’s maladroit hunting of the limelight.

Nor is Gareth the only unwelcome comic presence in Westminster. Tim Canterbury – supposedly the good guy of The Office, but in reality an intellectual snob and a bully, who delighted in humiliating Gareth – is the spirit animal of many Remainers. They dispense their scorn with jokes and verbal dash, but it is no less venomous for that.

In 2001, when The Office first aired, the nation cringed together at the awful creations of Ricky Gervais’s imagination. Eighteen years later, we are governed by them. It’s not just Parliament. The whole mood of our times is now dominated by people who, in normal circumstances, one would dread sharing an open-plan cubicle with.

The Brexit crisis, of course, has provided irresistible opportunities for pomposity and unkindness. And these failings are no longer judged as harshly as they once were; indeed, they are barely even recognised as failings. Social media, which has replaced all other media as the way to get noticed, rewards qualities from which we once recoiled: attention-seeking, literal-mindedness, self-importance, lack of imagination and delusions of moral virtue. If Mr Pooter were alive today, he would inspire not pitying laughter but a hashtag campaign: #Justice4Nobodies.

The people you might want to share a desk with in real life – the thoughtful fence-sitters, the hesitant dreamers, the peace-makers and compromisers – cannot make themselves heard above the din. Increasingly, they don’t bother trying. It’s Gareth and Tim’s world now, and it isn’t even funny.


Link: Pic
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northleicsblue Posted on 12/09/2019 20:49
Oh ffs -please remain

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bnet - a deal that keeps us in a customs union ( for the friction free trade stuff) and doesnt feck up the Ireland Peace Treaty

I can live with the other stuff - not being in the political project, bot being protected ( you would call it dominated) by EU law, not having EU protection on the environment etc ( you would call it domination or some such)

and XXXXXX the beaches, lets let them get messed up again
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billsballbag Posted on 12/09/2019 22:00
Oh ffs -please remain

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Isn’t ditching the customs union the main prize of leaving in the long term?
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bnet Posted on 12/09/2019 22:34
Oh ffs -please remain

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so you don't agree with democracy then NLB, you want just stay even though the people voted leave. What would you label that as, as an ideology ?
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hackneyfox Posted on 13/09/2019 09:35
Oh ffs -please remain

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Democracy means we can still hold a different opinion.
It’s certainly not an ideology.
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LeicesterRino Posted on 14/09/2019 08:52
Oh ffs -please remain

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NLB, I pretty much agree with you, but consider this. We pay (net) to be in the EU. We buy more from the EU than we sell to it. So in effect we’re subsidising them to compete with us. I’m sure you won’t find a business model like that anywhere else.
Trade isn’t the only consideration but it is food for thought
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