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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 08:35 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Just a couple of questions. 1) Will you be watching tonight's much heralded appearance on Question Time by Nick Griffin? 2) Will you feel ok, or perhaps slightly uncomfortable at the point where what he says chimes with your own views? 3) Do you think this might lead you to re-examine those views, perhaps consider why you feel threatened by immigration? Or indeed explore what else Griffin's party have to offer you? According to popular Floridian columnist Richard Littlejohn, he was offered the spare seat on the panel but refused to share a platform with that terrible man (I take it Griffin wasn't afforded the same opportunity to cavil at Littlejohn's possible appearance). Struck me as odd that someone so publicly and vehemently anti immigration (Littlejohn) should take this stance. Unless of course his real concern was that he would be shown to be within a goose step of the BNP on the political spectrum. Who knows? Anyroad, anti-immigrationarinos, interested in your thoughts. | |
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| towz Posted on 22/10/2009 08:38 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| ug ug ug, England for the English (whatever they maybe, possibly a mixture of Romano-British, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Jutes, Scots, French Huguenots, Dutch, Irish, Pakistanis, Indians, Jamaicans.......) | |
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| Sea_Harrier Posted on 22/10/2009 08:39 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 08:42 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, we need immigrants to support us all in our old age. Our ageing population isn't enough. Obviously not the "non-contributory" variety, but we do need a regular influx of workers to pay taxes and enjoy this country, as we should. [EDIT] I'll be watching QT to see what Nick Griffin has to say hoping that he will educate me as to why I should vote BNP at the next General Election. | |
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| Piggy Posted on 22/10/2009 08:42 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| On a similar note, I felt a little uncomfortable when I learnt that the BNP are against our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. I voted Lib Dem last time around solely on that issue. I wonder if the audience will applaud when he describes Tony Blair as a war criminal? | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 08:45 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Piggy. My understanding is that he's against the Afghan war because he is such a rabid anti-Semite. Complex business this race hate thing. | |
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| ccole Posted on 22/10/2009 08:45 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, do you believe that we should have no immigration control and people should come and go as they please into the UK? Any form of control would move your attitude towards the BNP. Are you ok with that? | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 08:50 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I don't see how controls to monitor the movement of individuals for the purposes of detecting - say - fleeing criminals are anything other than sensible. But that aside, yes - I believe that people should be free to move around as they please in general. EU citizens already are. Obviously this can have practical issues where you get large, panic population movements to flee natural disasters and war for example. However, these are areas where we could do more at 'source' to ameliorate such problems. | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 08:53 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 08:54 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| It's the fact that a lot of people are put at a disadvantage by immigration, not threatened by it. Take the Royal Mail today and those striking, who do you think will be filling all those replacement temp positions, I’ll hazard a guess a huge number will be by East Europeans. It’s Labours legacy that has created this hostility, not the BNP’s. Instead of improving the working mans lot, they instead, undermine them by using foreign labour which is what I whole heartedly disagree with. It’s also the reason why people find it more economically viable to fake incapacity benefit, than slog their guts out for a temporary job with no security that pays little more. | |
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| joshie Posted on 22/10/2009 08:57 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, Would your vision of general free movement not potentially cause a multitude of problems in some countries where the health service is free, state benefits will provide them with a high standard of living in comparison to where they live etc, the UK likely to be one of them? | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 08:58 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Hmmm. Problem there. 'It's the fact' followed by 'I’ll hazard a guess'. Can't see the evidence. But rivals, do you want to have a go at the questions in the OP? | |
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| Rodney_Trotter Posted on 22/10/2009 08:59 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Censorship is the answer then specky? Funny you don`t want the muslim extremists, calling returning soldiers `baby murders` £ `rapists`. Still that doesn`f it your agenda does it specky? How are those bogey men fairing in Pakistan? Still killing innocents from behind my settee? | |
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| chorleyphil Posted on 22/10/2009 09:02 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| hmm. All interesting! Its about time the BNP was brought to the political platform, rather than being vilified by failing MP's and desperate media who, whilst claim to detest the BNP, have no quarms in whipping up an immigration/asylum frenzy. Should be interesting. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:03 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| joshie - of course. But I make the point that these kinds of inequalities would be better addressed at source. Also - don't imagine that the NHS would be the primary target for health tourists. Read somewhere last year that Slovakia's health service had overtaken ours by some measures. | |
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| wherestheremote Posted on 22/10/2009 09:03 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 09:03 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| "2) Will you feel ok, or perhaps slightly uncomfortable at the point where what he says chimes with your own views?" There is very little, in fact, no chance at all of that. Even should we seem to want the same things, the reasons and solutions would be poles apart. The BNP are a racist party. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:05 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| 'Censorship is the answer then specky?' Rodney - grateful if you could point out where, on this thread or elsewhere, I've said anything that is other than in favour of Griffin appearing on Question Time. | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 09:08 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 09:11 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Can’t say what it’s like in Middlesbrough anymore, don’t live there. Having lived down south and seen the queues of East Europeans queuing out the back of supermarkets each morning, or having seen them getting picked up by merchants in car parks every morning, it's a reasonable deduction Specky. That’s pretty much why there are job agencies down here specialising in this. That’s what a lot are here for, to pick up any temporary work. I don’t blame them but I still don’t agree with the situation it makes. This is what breeds support for the BNP. The disadvantages it creates. Your questions are ridiculous by the way. | |
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| Rodney_Trotter Posted on 22/10/2009 09:10 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I`m not saying you have, however you are saying that if people find themselves agreeing with what he says there is something not quite right about them. As with all the political parties, I do find myself agreeing with the BNP on a couple of things not all. I find the same with the Lib Dems. | |
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| joshie Posted on 22/10/2009 09:11 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, fair enough though for things to be successfully dealt with at source you almost need a utopian world society which looks impossible. Although the NHS might not be the best service in comparison to others, that coupled with the state benefit system etc makes it an attractive place for many of the worlds migrants, I feel we would end up in a serious mess if everyone had free movement, as would many other countries around the world. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:11 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Why are the questions ridiculous rivals? | |
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| The_263 Posted on 22/10/2009 09:14 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I'll be watching it for the sake of democracy. Hopefully flaws in his arguments will be exposed, As for the wider debate immigration is vital for the UK, but provided it is controlled and not burdensome to the economy. At the moment I sense it is out of control or has been. | |
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| endeavour Posted on 22/10/2009 09:15 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| F*ck the BNP. they're a bunch of Ranger supporting nobs. They can replace their bomber jackets with suits but they still racist pricks. Sh*t history repeats itself. Just like when Thatcher screwed us all over, veryone starts blaming immigrants. It's a classic political ploy. Thankfully people like Weller, Strummer and Bragg galvonised the youth to speak out and reject that SUN propaganda. Before, we start telling people they not welcome in our country, we should perhaps leave where were not wanted: Iraq & afghanistan. | |
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| Bernie_was_right Posted on 22/10/2009 09:16 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I wont be embarrassed if some of my views match the BNP`s - for example i believe they are in favour of the re-introduction of the death penalty. That doesn`t mean i agree with all of their policies, or indeed that i would ever vote for them. I wholeheartedly agree with New Labours smoking ban, but would rather lose the right to vote than ever vote for them. Why should agreeing with some of the BNP`s policies make you ashamed or embarrassed? As you said yesterday Specky, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:17 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| No Rodney, I'm saying there is something inconsistent about people sitting adjacent to the BNP on the political spectrum decrying that nasty man Nick Griffin. joshie - an entirely reasonable view. Resources are not infinite. But is it so utopian to imagine that the developed world could help to bring about circumstances where those in poorer climes actually want to stay where they are? Because staying where they are is surely a fairly natural instinct for most people. | |
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| BigCasino Posted on 22/10/2009 09:20 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I wish I could see the world in black and white. In favour of immigration controls = BNP supporter. There are options other than open/closed door ffs. As far as solving the problem at source, a touch naive mate. Just out of interest, do you work in the public sector? | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:21 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I said uncomfortable Bernie, not ashamed or embarassed. Given that - on what are presumably important issues to you - you find some common cause with the BNP, why not vote for them? Which are those policies that would put you off? Or conversely, what do rival parties have to offer that is so compelling? | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 09:22 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| From the way they are worded. Apparently in your head any agreement with Nick Griffin is a step towards full-blown Nazism, death camps and all. Yet you then want to heap blame on those people who might agree with the BNP on those individuals, not the mainstream parties. The main problem is the main parties are all in the pocket of big business meaning the only party to recognise the disadvantages created by cheap foreign labour is the BNP. Personally I don’t believe you can blame voters for this situation. Any agreement with the BNP is through the failure of the mainstream parties in my view. Not some poor sod thrown onto the scrap heap from twenty years of Tory and Labour governments. | |
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| chorleyphil Posted on 22/10/2009 09:24 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Immigration is fine, as long as it doesnt undermine the local workforce. | |
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| ccole Posted on 22/10/2009 09:26 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Is it right that we should ban a party any airtime, in an open forum, with questions asked by rivals and the public, because Joe Public may like his answers and what they have to say. These people are more right wing than the thugs of the BNP. | |
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| Diasboro_Dan Posted on 22/10/2009 09:27 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| "re-examine those views, perhaps consider why you feel threatened by immigration?" A lot of people who are concerned about immigration are not merely 'feeling threatened', they have clear knowledge that it has cost them their job and living standard. They don't need to be patronised by those lucky enough to have a job where they are not likewise threatened (for the time being at least). | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:27 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| BigCasino, rivals. The black/white point is in the way you've deliberately chosen to interpret the questions. I've used the expression 'political spectrum' more than once in this thread. The questions are about whether you would feel uncomfortable about having significant points of political common ground with a media bogeyman. | |
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| endeavour Posted on 22/10/2009 09:28 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| You can't be half democratic and half violent. Just like the British gov't wouldn't do business with Sinn Fein until they surrended their arms, the same should be said of the BNP. Those frickin suits don't fool anyone ( of that's right they do, all you Alf Garnettesque SUN readers). Yeh, bring back the death penalty cos it works a treat in the USA. Sh*t it reminds me of the angry mob who burnt down the Paedo's house...unfortunately he was a Paedatrician | |
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| chorleyphil Posted on 22/10/2009 09:31 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| endeavor...your ranting is getting the better of you. I'd rather listen to what Griffin has to say. You analogy with Sinn Fien is total BLX too! | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:33 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Diasboro_Dan - are you saying that you can only be anti-immigration because you have lost your job to an immigrant? Bit patronising. | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 09:36 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| No it's an attempt to stroke your left wing ego Specky, and paint people as Hitlers reincarnation. | |
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| Rodney_Trotter Posted on 22/10/2009 09:38 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Similarly you can`t be all for free immigration because it hasn`t affected you directly. Bit patronising. In fact no, extremely patronising | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:40 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 11:00 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Rivals - what evidence do you have that I'm left wing? Hazarding another guess there. Rodders - again, trying to personalise rather than address the issue. How the hell do you know I haven't been economically disadvantaged by immigration? You don't know me or my circumstances. | |
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| endeavour Posted on 22/10/2009 09:41 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Chorleyphil what ya gonna do send some BNP thugs round to shut me up? Mate, I'm just sick of English people going on about immigrants. XXXXXX we raped and pillaged the world for centuries and still do. What about Nigeria's natural resources being sucked up by BP and the likes. Instead of blaming the pakis, the poles etc we should blame the real people responsible for the mess were in...this corrupt government and all those f*ckers who control the money. Smash the state man! | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 09:44 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Well try giving something away Specky? It's what your trying to pry from others, in order to paint them as Neo Nazis. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:48 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Where have I asked that rivals? | |
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| endeavour Posted on 22/10/2009 09:49 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I live in Australia and John Howard won an election by letting a boat full of refugees sink and then locking the rest away in concentration camps. Oh yeh and then he dismissed 2 million people marching on the streets of Sydney against going to war in Iraq as a minor demonstation (our population is only 20m). Is this the type of d*ckhead you want in power. Thankfully we got rid of Howard at the last election | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 09:55 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Say like the implications of being threatened by immigration or being uncomfortable agreeing with the idea of agreeing with Nick griffin. I’m afraid your questions just weren’t that impartial were they. Tell me, why do you want to know these answers? Whats the reason? | |
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| littlejimmy Posted on 22/10/2009 09:57 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky's in a masochistic mood this morning, I see. | |
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| chorleyphil Posted on 22/10/2009 09:58 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| god you are tedious! | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 09:58 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 10:00 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Unlike your good self, I'm interested in why people hold different views to mine, not just in why people might agree with me. That's why people have political discourse. Nah Jimmy. Just felt that 'Strachan Out' was getting old before it was even young. | |
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| littlejimmy Posted on 22/10/2009 10:02 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Tune in tomorrow when specky plays chess with a hungry lion. | |
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| rivals_oldschool Posted on 22/10/2009 10:06 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Like a fly on sh*t. | |
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| borolad259 Posted on 22/10/2009 10:11 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I live in an a ward represented by a BNP councillor. There are, according to the BNP finder 30 members within two miles of my house (curiously, neither the BNP Finder, nor the full list of BNP members I have which includes personal and job details actaually list the councillor as a member). There are places of real economic deprivation within the ward, but also large areas of lower middle class home owners, which is where the majority of the members are. They got in because, by and large, the local voters felt abandoned by New Labour, who seemed to be buttering up the bankers and trying to seduce Middle England, rather than dealing with traditional labour voters' most pressing issues. The BNP campaign very hard here. People here are not squeamish about the question of racism. Go into the middle class pubs around here, and you will find casual racism to be endemic. It won't be admitted as racism....usually it is prefaced by "I'm not a racist, but...". I suspect that Nick Griffin will find a ready audience here. The BBC will effectively allow him to legitimise the BNP to them. I fear that it will take a few years of Tory Government to remind them that the right wing political agenda is not about them. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 10:15 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Interesting post borolad. As a matter of interest, would you consider your councillor to be generally consciencious in discharging his/her civic duties? | |
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| zaphod Posted on 22/10/2009 10:17 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| No political party is in favour of uncontrolled immigration. What is up for debate is the level of controls and how to treat illegal immigrants. I don't think there's much doubt that the UK has been too lenient in both cases & change is needed, but the extent of controls has to vary depending on the economic circumstances. At the moment, we don't really need immigrants because of the economic downturn. So far as I can tell, the BNP is not just in favour of more or less banning immigration, but also wants to repatriate British passport holders with the wrong ethnic background. I hope someone asks Nick Griffin if he would refuse medical treatment from people who he would like to repatriate, as the NHS is heavily reliant on immigrants. | |
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| wokingmassive Posted on 22/10/2009 10:19 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| 40,000 immigrants have gone missing over the last ten years under labour. They do not know where they are. This is perhaps the finest example of the chaos that the immigration system is in under the fantastic leadership of the labour party. A big well done to them. ![[^]](images/smilies/approve.gif) | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 10:20 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Good point zaphod. Never understood why the BNP don't make themselves more electable by trimming away some of the 'step too far' stuff, as a temporary electoral expedient of course. | |
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| chorleyphil Posted on 22/10/2009 10:20 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Go on then, I'll believe you! | |
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| borolad259 Posted on 22/10/2009 10:25 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, that's hard to say. They avoid coming to my door since I kicked them up the garden path and onto the street. They did make a big deal about having their photograph taken with the local Asian shopkeeper. Oh, and the previous incumbent had a spot of local difficulty regarding benefit fraud. You don't see them on the governing bodies of schools, that kind of thing. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 10:27 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Ah. I can see why they've not troubled you since. Odd though. 'We think you should be booted out, any chance of a photo op?' | |
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| Diasboro_Dan Posted on 22/10/2009 10:30 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| The leadership of the BNP don't want to govern. They've found their niche, and that's all that matters. They're a bit like the Liberals. | |
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| Bernie_was_right Posted on 22/10/2009 10:35 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky - why are you always seeking to smear people who don`t agree with unfettered immigration as racist?? It`s exactly this kind of attempt to stifle debate that`s seen the BNP take almost one million votes in the Euro elections. As to your question, i don`t vote for the BNP because i don`t agree with all of their policies. Same reason i don`t vote Labour. I don`t agree with all of the Conservatives policies either, but i agree with far more of theirs than i do other political parties, so they win my vote. Isn`t that the case for most people? | |
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| zaphod Posted on 22/10/2009 10:39 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I think Griffin is taking a big chance. If he makes a mistake, it'll be used as a stick to beat him, but if he sounds normal (ie bland), it'll just be forgotten. | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 10:44 If you are anti immigration.... | Edited On: 22/10/2009 10:46 Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Bernie. I wouldn't say all people with concerns on immigration are racist. As outlined elsewhere on the thread politics is a spectrum, and if you watch tonight you may feel just a bit disconcerted to see how close on that spectrum you might be to media monster Nick Griffin. Not you of course, nobody could accuse Littlejohn's number one fan of racism. But I'm intrigued by your 'quantitative' view of voting - i.e., the more policies you agree with the more chance of your vote. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I suppose some people will give certain issues more weight in their choice. Suspect immigration will be the number one issue in the minds of the BNP's voters. | |
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| borolad259 Posted on 22/10/2009 11:25 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Specky, this is my local newspaper. Link: Is he local? | |
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| Lefty Posted on 22/10/2009 11:45 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I wonder how many posts we'll get tomorrow saying 'that Griffin spoke a lot of sense'? | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 11:49 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Horrible story that. Had to smile mind at 'the Ziggy's Spice House League division three '. | |
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| RandyGrandad Posted on 22/10/2009 11:49 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| I am pro immigration but it needs to be policed much more rigorously (sp); the UK population is expected to tip 71million which is not sustainable on an island our size. | |
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| towz Posted on 22/10/2009 11:52 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Saudi Arabia's population is around 23 million and that's a XXXXXXing big desert | |
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| mickbrown Posted on 22/10/2009 11:53 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Bernie - you in favour of the death penalty? Jesus man - I'd never have guessed | |
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| speckyget Posted on 22/10/2009 11:54 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| When do we become 'full' then Randy? | |
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| mickbrown Posted on 22/10/2009 11:56 If you are anti immigration.... | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message |
| Woking - gone missing? So they might have all fecked off home? What's your problem then? | |
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